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Lus Hmoob-Lus Askiv: Hmong phrases

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Sorry uas kuv tsis sau hauv yam forum no for so long. Its been about a week now-- I guess thing just get busy quickly.

Ua tsaug for the info on "kingdom." I actually had never come across "Kuj Cuab" before. Its not in my dictionaries. (... You knew that was coming, didn't you?) I have also used a Hmong New Testament in my study and I haven't come across the word there either, but I did take a closer look at the terms it uses. Kuv "Vajtswv Txojlus Phau Tshiab" siv lub lo lus "Tebchaws" to mean a geographical area like Judea or Galilee thiab nws siv lub lo lus "haivneeg uas Vajtswv kav" lossis "Vajtswv los kav neeg lub siab" to mean "the kingdom of God."

As you point out, I've noticed that "heaven" can be a sticky word too. Sometimes yus siv lub lo lus "ntuj" thaib sometimes "ceeb tsheej." I've seen it argued that the term "ceeb tsheej" is a little misleading, though.

The bible was fairly recently translated, but not by the people who had extensive knowledge of Hmong language! Ceeb Tsheej for example were never refer to as heaven before Hmong were exposed to christianity. Ceeb Tsheej 城镇 chéngzhèn or Jīnchéng (晋城 Forbidden City) were more likely to be just a walled off city, the like of an Imperial Palace. However since Hmong were introduced to Christianity, they lacked the terminology to denote a passable heaven, so hmong use Ntuj and Ceebtsheej to convey a heavenly structure.

Even Vaajtswv Wáng zhǔ 王主 is an archaic term that Hmong and Chinese shared, but more prominently in Hmong to refer to lodrship of the imperial family lineage, and not a term to translate the English word, GOD. The Hmong bible however made Vaajtswv popular in a different context altogether!

Look at Vaaj ntxwv (king in Hmong) actually mean prince in Chinese Wángzǐ 王子, somehow the Hmong rather used Vaaj txheeb as prince instead.

So don't even trust the translated words of the Hmong bible, it only mean for very shallow spoken language at best. As more intellectual Hmong begin researching into the root of Hmong language, in time will bring about a new revolution soon!! I certainly hope so....

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CKFY,

I think say (kuv xaav hastas) koj yuav yug expert rua phaab nuav lawm, kuv ca koj nrug taumntev (long bean) thaam .. Kuv maamle nqaa tog tuaj zaum saiv pov...ooops! Tsis yog lawm ...

you are hilarious. koj txaus luag dhau lawm. I like you. Kuv nyiam koj. Come say more. Tuaj hais ntxiv. I go. Kuv mus. hahahahha== luag luag luag

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you are hilarious. koj txaus luag dhau lawm. I like you. Kuv nyiam koj. Come say more. Tuaj hais ntxiv. I go. Kuv mus. hahahahha== luag luag luag

Brother Taum Ntev,

Koj saib LightLove mas tseem tseem phim nwg lub npe sibhlub tag tag le! Nwg tsi laam cas koj hab kuv wb ob leeg ua ntsuag nog xwb, nwg tuaj nrug paab wb hlub peb Moob cov lug hab! Npawg Khej1 ces nwg yog KhejDlub xwb ces, nwg tsi laam rov tuaj zaum saib wb thaam le lawm os! Koj puas tsim nyog yuav ua nwg ib lu lug ua tsaug qhuav qhuav thank her a dry dry word nad?

sibhlub as.... thov coj koj txuj kev hlub tuaj faib rua peb cov tsi muaj tug hlub hab nawb mog miv naib LightLove nawb!!!

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Brother Taum Ntev,

Koj saib LightLove mas tseem tseem phim nwg lub npe sibhlub tag tag le! Nwg tsi laam cas koj hab kuv wb ob leeg ua ntsuag nog xwb, nwg tuaj nrug paab wb hlub peb Moob cov lug hab! Npawg Khej1 ces nwg yog KhejDlub xwb ces, nwg tsi laam rov tuaj zaum saib wb thaam le lawm os! Koj puas tsim nyog yuav ua nwg ib lu lug ua tsaug qhuav qhuav thank her a dry dry word nad?

sibhlub as.... thov coj koj txuj kev hlub tuaj faib rua peb cov tsi muaj tug hlub hab nawb mog miv naib LightLove nawb!!!

hehehehehee...

I like you now. Kuv nyiam koj tamsim no. You make me laugh so hard. Koj ua kuv luag tawv...hehehehe. Am I worthy of your attention now? Kuv puas tsim nyog rau koj (oyooo-translate tsis laib "attention")... **thinking**

Kuv puas tsim nyog koj saib tamsim no... heheheehe..

Sibhlub txaus siab faib kev hlub rau Chiv. LightLove content to share love to Chiv.

I like to learn hmoob from you and Khej. Kuv xav kawm ntawv hmoob los ntawm koj thiab Khej...ehehehehe..

Please do not give me dry thank you. Thov txhob muab lus qhuav ua tsaug. I really like to learn how to write in hmong. Kuv xav xav nyiam kawm sau ntawv hmoob. Will you take me as your student. koj puas kam txais kuv ua koj tus menyuam luj xiv?

hehehehehe..hehehehe..

Thank you very much. Ua tsaug ntau ntau.

hehehehehe..hhehehheehehhe..hehehehhee....

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The bible was fairly recently translated, but not by the people who had extensive knowledge of Hmong language! Ceeb Tsheej for example were never refer to as heaven before Hmong were exposed to christianity. Ceeb Tsheej 城镇 chéngzhèn or Jīnchéng (晋城 Forbidden City) were more likely to be just a walled off city, the like of an Imperial Palace. However since Hmong were introduced to Christianity, they lacked the terminology to denote a passable heaven, so hmong use Ntuj and Ceebtsheej to convey a heavenly structure.

Even Vaajtswv Wáng zhǔ 王主 is an archaic term that Hmong and Chinese shared, but more prominently in Hmong to refer to lodrship of the imperial family lineage, and not a term to translate the English word, GOD. The Hmong bible however made Vaajtswv popular in a different context altogether!

Look at Vaaj ntxwv (king in Hmong) actually mean prince in Chinese Wángzǐ 王子, somehow the Hmong rather used Vaaj txheeb as prince instead.

So don't even trust the translated words of the Hmong bible, it only mean for very shallow spoken language at best. As more intellectual Hmong begin researching into the root of Hmong language, in time will bring about a new revolution soon!! I certainly hope so....

Even without a great depth of insight into the language, I had noticed, as you say, that the Hmong Bible that I have is not a perfect translation. (I have a translation put out by the Hmong Baptist Fellowship. I'm not sure how accurate the other translations are.) Of course, its difficult in some ways, because it seems that even many of the Hmong people now are not very deep with their own language, so translators may try to use very simple language. I'm not sure how deep the translators themselves were in the language, but I'm probably not qualified to comment on that. One of the problems, specifically, is that the translation, in some of the verses that I have seen, seems to be trying to convey the thoughts in a way that people will understand them instead of using a more literal approach. This kind of approach often conveys ideas more easily but usually is greatly lacking in depth. As you mention, the word "Vajtswv" or "Vaajtswv" would not originally have referred to deity in the vernacular. On the other hand, English has the same issue. The word "Lord" is actually a title that was used in English to refer to a human ruler before it used as a translation for some of the Hebrew and Greek terms designating the Supreme Spiritual Ruler. Over time, however, the second meaning has become even more prominent than the first meaning. Even the English Bible has many terms that are used in ways that are more or less specific to Christianity. I expect that a richer Hmong translation will come along in the future. For now, though, it's what I have to work with.

Well, I've done it again.... I've started a short post and rambled until it was really long! Sorry!

I was wondering though.... Is there a better word to use for heaven in the Christian sense than "Ntuj" or "Ceeb Tsheej"? Also, is there a difference between saying, "Nws tau koobhmoov" and "Nws nyob zoo" (or "Nws nyob ua zoo")?

Ua koj tsaug!

--taumntev

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Brother Taum Ntev,

Koj saib LightLove mas tseem tseem phim nwg lub npe sibhlub tag tag le! Nwg tsi laam cas koj hab kuv wb ob leeg ua ntsuag nog xwb, nwg tuaj nrug paab wb hlub peb Moob cov lug hab! Npawg Khej1 ces nwg yog KhejDlub xwb ces, nwg tsi laam rov tuaj zaum saib wb thaam le lawm os! Koj puas tsim nyog yuav ua nwg ib lu lug ua tsaug qhuav qhuav thank her a dry dry word nad?

sibhlub as.... thov coj koj txuj kev hlub tuaj faib rua peb cov tsi muaj tug hlub hab nawb mog miv naib LightLove nawb!!!

Of course, you would know better than I would, tabsis kuv xav tias "sib" tsis ib txwm mean "light". For example, "sib ntsib dua," "sib sau," "sib pab," "sib cav," "sib haum," etc. Txawm yog, kuv yuav tsum hais tias "ib lu lus ua tsaug qhuav qhuav" yog ib lub lo lus tshiab rau kuv.

Thiab, kuv yuav tsum lees hais tias, kuv nyiam Sibhlub's kev sau (Hmoob thaib Askiv). Also, I have to admit that I like Sibhlub's writing style (Hmoob and English). Tej zaum kuv yeej yuav sau li ntawd. Maybe I will try writing like that. Yog yooj yim ntau rau kuv. It is easier for me.

(Does that count as my "ib lu lus ua tsaug qhuav qhuav"?)

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Of course, you would know better than I would, tabsis kuv xav tias "sib" tsis ib txwm mean "light". For example, "sib ntsib dua," "sib sau," "sib pab," "sib cav," "sib haum," etc. Txawm yog, kuv yuav tsum hais tias "ib lu lus ua tsaug qhuav qhuav" yog ib lub lo lus tshiab rau kuv.

Thiab, kuv yuav tsum lees hais tias, kuv nyiam Sibhlub's kev sau (Hmoob thaib Askiv). Also, I have to admit that I like Sibhlub's writing style (Hmoob and English). Tej zaum kuv yeej yuav sau li ntawd. Maybe I will try writing like that. Yog yooj yim ntau rau kuv. It is easier for me.

(Does that count as my "ib lu lus ua tsaug qhuav qhuav"?)

I'm already inlove with your idea. Kuv twb hlub nrog koj lub tswv8. Thank you for your compliment. Ua tsaug koj lus qhuas. Does that mean you take me as your student. Yog li koj txais tos kuv ua koj menyuaj luj xis? I think writing in English and hmong together like this is better communication for both worlds and has different feel and meaning to it. Kuv xav tias sau ntawv avkis thiab hmoob uake li no thiaj li sib nkagsiab rau ob lub ntuj thiab nws txhais tau txawj. Please come teach me more. Thov tuaj qhia ntxiv.

Have you noticed that some words in english cannot be translate in to hmong such as "communication" or perhaps I don't know the word in hmong. Koj puas pom tias qee lus sau avkis txhais tsis tau ua lus hmoob ib yam los lus "communication" los yog tias kuv tsis paub txhais ua lus hmoob.

I will be looking forward to your forth coming. Kuv npaj tos koj txoj kev rov tuaj dua....

Thank you sincerely, not an empty thank you. Ua tsaug siab dawb phauj, tsis yog ua tsuag qhuav.

hehehehe...hehehehe..

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Of course, you would know better than I would, tabsis kuv xav tias "sib" tsis ib txwm mean "light". For example, "sib ntsib dua," "sib sau," "sib pab," "sib cav," "sib haum," etc. Txawm yog, kuv yuav tsum hais tias "ib lu lus ua tsaug qhuav qhuav" yog ib lub lo lus tshiab rau kuv.

Thiab, kuv yuav tsum lees hais tias, kuv nyiam Sibhlub's kev sau (Hmoob thaib Askiv). Also, I have to admit that I like Sibhlub's writing style (Hmoob and English). Tej zaum kuv yeej yuav sau li ntawd. Maybe I will try writing like that. Yog yooj yim ntau rau kuv. It is easier for me.

(Does that count as my "ib lu lus ua tsaug qhuav qhuav"?)

taumntev,

As you know the way Hmonglish goes, we might as well have no rule at all! So lightlove is a Hmonglish term that I thought would catch the fancy of Hmong peeps... just like the immortal Tshuaj Tawvnruj which was conceived merely 15 years or 20 years ago!!

Sib as a noun, and by itself is one thing, but when in a compound form, it means entirely different thing; being the culmination of action related to the world that follow...

Sibhlub is actually in lightlove with Taum ntev's way of giving life to the dying Hmong word!!....... let's hit it off bro!

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Even without a great depth of insight into the language, I had noticed, as you say, that the Hmong Bible that I have is not a perfect translation. (I have a translation put out by the Hmong Baptist Fellowship. I'm not sure how accurate the other translations are.) Of course, its difficult in some ways, because it seems that even many of the Hmong people now are not very deep with their own language, so translators may try to use very simple language. I'm not sure how deep the translators themselves were in the language, but I'm probably not qualified to comment on that. One of the problems, specifically, is that the translation, in some of the verses that I have seen, seems to be trying to convey the thoughts in a way that people will understand them instead of using a more literal approach. This kind of approach often conveys ideas more easily but usually is greatly lacking in depth. As you mention, the word "Vajtswv" or "Vaajtswv" would not originally have referred to deity in the vernacular. On the other hand, English has the same issue. The word "Lord" is actually a title that was used in English to refer to a human ruler before it used as a translation for some of the Hebrew and Greek terms designating the Supreme Spiritual Ruler. Over time, however, the second meaning has become even more prominent than the first meaning. Even the English Bible has many terms that are used in ways that are more or less specific to Christianity. I expect that a richer Hmong translation will come along in the future. For now, though, it's what I have to work with.

Well, I've done it again.... I've started a short post and rambled until it was really long! Sorry!

I was wondering though.... Is there a better word to use for heaven in the Christian sense than "Ntuj" or "Ceeb Tsheej"? Also, is there a difference between saying, "Nws tau koobhmoov" and "Nws nyob zoo" (or "Nws nyob ua zoo")?

Ua koj tsaug!

--taumntev

taumntev,

Yes, there are! But they are not very popular with the average Hmong people today... only researchers of Hmong language were aware of, but no one rarely use them other than in the case of spiritual RITUALS. These terms will never make it into the Hmong Bible because Christians see them as something too devilish!!!!!! And it is unacceptable to me, because they were so Hmong and not being bastardized by the Foreing Devils!!! Are you aware of Daoism? Ying & Yang?

1. Yeeb Ceeb - Yìng jīng 應京 actually mean the spiritual realm or city of the spirits.

2. Theeb Khoob - Kōng tiān 空天 which mean heaven or space (universe.)

You would tend to think of these 2 terms as Chinese, but they were both used in more spiritual rituals by the Hmong. Like I said, either the Chinese had absent-mindedly borrowed - took from the ancient Hmong! Or the Hmong actually loaned them from the Chinese - no one can really tell. Hmong maintained strongly that Emperial Chinese, dynasty after dynasty had eleminated and prohibited Hmong to use our written and spoken languages....

So my friend, the war still wages on!!!

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Have you noticed that some words in english cannot be translate in to hmong such as "communication" or perhaps I don't know the word in hmong. Koj puas pom tias qee lus sau avkis txhais tsis tau ua lus hmoob ib yam los lus "communication" los yog tias kuv tsis paub txhais ua lus hmoob.

I'm sure that CKFY would have a much better answer than I have, but if I were trying to invent a word to mean "communication," I would probably say "kev hais kev sau." Kuv yeej xav tias CKFY ntau ntau txawj muab teb zoo dua kuv. Tiamsis yogtias kuv sim ua lub lo lus txhais "communication" ces kuv yuav siv lub lo lus "kev hais kev sau." There is probably already a Hmong word for "communication" though. Txawm yog, tej zaum yog lub lo lus txhais "communication" lawm. I just don't know what it is. Tiamsis, kuv tsis paub yog lub lus twg.

Does that mean you take me as your student. Yog li koj txais tos kuv ua koj menyuaj luj xis?

Your Hmong is probably better than mine. Kuv xav tias koj hais lus Hmoob zoo dua kuv hais lus Hmoob. I'm not sure that there is a lot I can teach you (unless you are interested in German or 18th-century English!). Maybe we can all learn together. Tej zaum peb txhua neeg ua kawm uake.

Ua tsaug siab dawb phauj, tsis yog ua tsuag qhuav.

Should this be "siab dawb paug"? Kuv xav tias koj siv hais tias "siab dawb paug." By the way, if I mess up with my Hmong (as I probably have many times in these posts), feel free to let me know. Thiab, yogtias kuv hais lus yuam kev (thiab kuv xav tias kuv ua li no ib puas sijhawm hauv forum no), thov qhia kuv. That way I can learn better. Ntawd li kuv yeej yuav kawm.

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taumntev,

As you know the way Hmonglish goes, we might as well have no rule at all! So lightlove is a Hmonglish term that I thought would catch the fancy of Hmong peeps... just like the immortal Tshuaj Tawvnruj which was conceived merely 15 years or 20 years ago!!

Sib as a noun, and by itself is one thing, but when in a compound form, it means entirely different thing; being the culmination of action related to the world that follow...

Sibhlub is actually in lightlove with Taum ntev's way of giving life to the dying Hmong word!!....... let's hit it off bro!

Friend Chivkeeb,

Just wanted to let you know that I wasn't doubting you for a minute. I was just making conversation by pointing out the obvious. :)

taumntev,

Yes, there are! But they are not very popular with the average Hmong people today... only researchers of Hmong language were aware of, but no one rarely use them other than in the case of spiritual RITUALS. These terms will never make it into the Hmong Bible because Christians see them as something too devilish!!!!!! And it is unacceptable to me, because they were so Hmong and not being bastardized by the Foreing Devils!!! Are you aware of Daoism? Ying & Yang?

1. Yeeb Ceeb - Yìng jīng 應京 actually mean the spiritual realm or city of the spirits.

2. Theeb Khoob - Kōng tiān 空天 which mean heaven or space (universe.)

You would tend to think of these 2 terms as Chinese, but they were both used in more spiritual rituals by the Hmong. Like I said, either the Chinese had absent-mindedly borrowed - took from the ancient Hmong! Or the Hmong actually loaned them from the Chinese - no one can really tell. Hmong maintained strongly that Emperial Chinese, dynasty after dynasty had eleminated and prohibited Hmong to use our written and spoken languages....

So my friend, the war still wages on!!!

I have heard of Taoism and the Ying and Yang, but my awareness has not gone much farther than that. Interestingly, I finished a 100-year-old book just last week that happened to describe some of the Chinese religious beliefs and showed some of the different ethnic/cultural groups of China in relation to each other. The book was mostly about the Nosu (Yi) people, but it made many references to the Chinese and a few to the Hmong as well.

As to the not using of certain terms because of their association, I think that it is a somewhat difficult issue. When you want to describe a new idea, you can coin a new term or you can give a new dynamic to an old term. For instance, the original New Testament uses the Greek term "Hades" to describe Gehenna or the Old Testament "Sheol". Unless I am misinformed, the word Hades was used by some pagan Greek religions before that time. Of course the idea of such a place goes back much farther, but I am just pointing out that terms like these can sometimes still be used. On the other hand, sometimes coining a new term instead of using an old one can help avoid confusion.

By the way, I just thought of a commonly-used Hmong term that I hadn't mentioned earlier, but it really stood out to me the first time I saw it. Are you ready for it? "Qhovrooj". The first time that I saw this word, I read it as "hole-furniture." Ex.: Close the "hole-furniture" (lub qhovrooj) so you don't let in a draft! :)

Ua koj tsaug for the explanation on Yeeb Ceeb/Theeb Khoob!

--taumntev

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I'm sure that CKFY would have a much better answer than I have, but if I were trying to invent a word to mean "communication," I would probably say "kev hais kev sau." Kuv yeej xav tias CKFY ntau ntau txawj muab teb zoo dua kuv. Tiamsis yogtias kuv sim ua lub lo lus txhais "communication" ces kuv yuav siv lub lo lus "kev hais kev sau." There is probably already a Hmong word for "communication" though. Txawm yog, tej zaum yog lub lo lus txhais "communication" lawm. I just don't know what it is. Tiamsis, kuv tsis paub yog lub lus twg.

Your Hmong is probably better than mine. Kuv xav tias koj hais lus Hmoob zoo dua kuv hais lus Hmoob. I'm not sure that there is a lot I can teach you (unless you are interested in German or 18th-century English!). Maybe we can all learn together. Tej zaum peb txhua neeg ua kawm uake.

Should this be "siab dawb paug"? Kuv xav tias koj siv hais tias "siab dawb paug." By the way, if I mess up with my Hmong (as I probably have many times in these posts), feel free to let me know. Thiab, yogtias kuv hais lus yuam kev (thiab kuv xav tias kuv ua li no ib puas sijhawm hauv forum no), thov qhia kuv. That way I can learn better. Ntawd li kuv yeej yuav kawm.

"paug" heheehe ...

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you are hilarious. koj txaus luag dhau lawm. I like you. Kuv nyiam koj. Come say more. Tuaj hais ntxiv. I go. Kuv mus. hahahahha== luag luag luag

sibhlub & taumntev,

Peb 3 nyuas caws xwb mas, peb yuav tau lightlove heev heev nawb mog!

By the way the word hilarious has almost the same meaning as hysterical! "Cov tuabneeg tuaj huv Hmongza yuavlaug txhua tug raug Dlaab Vaamntxwg ua rua puab quaj qw lom vaab vaab taag tug le!"

The term Lom Vaabvaab, to me is pretty close to hilarious as to how the Hmong use it. But in Chinese in means entirely different situation; lao wang wang (sorry I couldn't get the word in Pinyin) in Chinese mean you cried out (in this case - wail) crazily in public.

Do you see something similar yet so different here?

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I'm sure that CKFY would have a much better answer than I have, but if I were trying to invent a word to mean "communication," I would probably say "kev hais kev sau." Kuv yeej xav tias CKFY ntau ntau txawj muab teb zoo dua kuv. Tiamsis yogtias kuv sim ua lub lo lus txhais "communication" ces kuv yuav siv lub lo lus "kev hais kev sau." There is probably already a Hmong word for "communication" though. Txawm yog, tej zaum yog lub lo lus txhais "communication" lawm. I just don't know what it is. Tiamsis, kuv tsis paub yog lub lus twg.

The word communication as Hmong used for nowsaday is Sib txuas lug; "Txujkev sib txuas lug huv peb Hmongza mas los sis yoojyim heev."

Your Hmong is probably better than mine. Kuv xav tias koj hais lus Hmoob zoo dua kuv hais lus Hmoob. I'm not sure that there is a lot I can teach you (unless you are interested in German or 18th-century English!). Maybe we can all learn together. Tej zaum peb txhua neeg ua kawm uake.

Should this be "siab dawb paug"? Kuv xav tias koj siv hais tias "siab dawb paug." By the way, if I mess up with my Hmong (as I probably have many times in these posts), feel free to let me know. Thiab, yogtias kuv hais lus yuam kev (thiab kuv xav tias kuv ua li no ib puas sijhawm hauv forum no), thov qhia kuv. That way I can learn better. Ntawd li kuv yeej yuav kawm.

A word, like I said earlier by itself it means one thing, however in compound word it can mean entirely different context. The word Sab dlawbpaug here mean a true (pure) heart - Hmonglish = heart clear white !

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CKFY,

I think say (kuv xaav hastas) koj yuav yug expert rua phaab nuav lawm, kuv ca koj nrug taumntev (long bean) thaam .. Kuv maamle nqaa tog tuaj zaum saiv pov...ooops! Tsis yog lawm ...

Ca kuv join koj hab-wb maam zaum saib xwb tag le lau.

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sibhlub & taumntev,

Peb 3 nyuas caws xwb mas, peb yuav tau lightlove heev heev nawb mog!

By the way the word hilarious has almost the same meaning as hysterical! "Cov tuabneeg tuaj huv Hmongza yuavlaug txhua tug raug Dlaab Vaamntxwg ua rua puab quaj qw lom vaab vaab taag tug le!"

The term Lom Vaabvaab, to me is pretty close to hilarious as to how the Hmong use it. But in Chinese in means entirely different situation; lao wang wang (sorry I couldn't get the word in Pinyin) in Chinese mean you cried out (in this case - wail) crazily in public.

Do you see something similar yet so different here?

Absolutely. Tiag. Wow! Its seems a lot like English--"hysterical" can mean "extremely funny" or it can mean "going insane with fear". Yog raws li lub lo lus "hysterical" rau lus Askiv. Nws txhais "ros heev" lossis "coj li tus neeg vwm vim ntshai". While the word means two very different things, both meanings share the idea of being loud or crazy. Txawm yog lub lo lus no txhais ob tsav yam, both yam hais tias yus yog li ntshoo losyog vwm.

By the way, is there a Hmong word or expression expressing the idea of "fortress, castle, strong tower, defense, bulwark, fortification, etc."? I came across the sugg[quote]estion of "tsev fuabtais" for "castle," but it sounded to me like that word would be referring more to a residence than to a fort. Of course, I could always use an improvised Hmonglish phrase, like "lub tsev khov kho heev tivthaiv caub tubrog." That seems pretty long, though, and it seems like there must be a shorter term for "fortress" out there. Do you know what the correct word would be?

Thanks!

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Ca kuv join koj hab-wb maam zaum saib xwb tag le lau.

Kuv yog Hmonglish nyiam kawm lub lus Hmoob thiab. kuv xav zaum saib neb thiab. ua tsaug.

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On the subject of "word-for-word" I just came across this today in a Hmong lesson:

"We learn an important principle here, that word classes in Hmong do not necessarily function in the same way as word classes in English. A word or phrase which fits an object slot in English may turn out to fit the verb slot in Hmong and so on. So it is important not to try and work out Hmong grammar by simple following the meanings of words in English -- the English meaning or the part of speech of the English word is absolutely no guide to its part of speech in Hmong."

Uh oh, there goes half my language work for the last "two-three month" <g>. That makes me feel a little bit like I felt when I found out that a great many Hmong words (same tone) have multiple meanings or when I read that the cim of a word could change based on which word went before it. Oh well, I guess I'll just have to keep on drilling. I haven't had any success trying to find an online language exchange partner, but at least I've got my Hmong lessons to help me along. (And my not-so-trusted dictionaries!)

I'll still get past Hmonglish yet! I guess its on to the next lesson for now.

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Kuv yog Hmonglish nyiam kawm lub lus Hmoob thiab. kuv xav zaum saib neb thiab. ua tsaug.

Tsis zaum saib xwb. Tuaj koom tham nrog peb 'os. :)

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Absolutely. Tiag. Wow! Its seems a lot like English--"hysterical" can mean "extremely funny" or it can mean "going insane with fear". Yog raws li lub lo lus "hysterical" rau lus Askiv. Nws txhais "ros heev" lossis "coj li tus neeg vwm vim ntshai". While the word means two very different things, both meanings share the idea of being loud or crazy. Txawm yog lub lo lus no txhais ob tsav yam, both yam hais tias yus yog li ntshoo losyog vwm.

By the way, is there a Hmong word or expression expressing the idea of "fortress, castle, strong tower, defense, bulwark, fortification, etc."? I came across the sugg[quote]estion of "tsev fuabtais" for "castle," but it sounded to me like that word would be referring more to a residence than to a fort. Of course, I could always use an improvised Hmonglish phrase, like "lub tsev khov kho heev tivthaiv caub tubrog." That seems pretty long, though, and it seems like there must be a shorter term for "fortress" out there. Do you know what the correct word would be?

Thanks!

Fortress tsis yog tsev huabtais. hmoob muaj hmoob lus hu tsev huabtais. tsev kheej, vaj loog etc.,

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It has been a little while since this topic has received new posts. I thought that it would be interesting to redirect the discussion to something that hasn't received much attention. We've been talking about Hmong expressions in general, but what are your favorite Hmong idiomatic expressions? (You know, those phrases that get used all the time, but really wouldn't make sense unless you had heard them before.) I would like to start the discussion with a few Hmong idioms, but I'm not sure that I know any. Of course English has lots of these.

For example: I think we could really bring the house down with this topic. The number of new posts could go through the roof; then I would really be on cloud nine. On the other hand, this idea could just go over like a lead balloon. Some people might incorrectly think that I'm just scraping the bottom of the barrel for new ideas, but I really would like to go whole hog on this one.

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Nyob zoo nej sawvdaws!

Kuv xav nrhiav expressions uas yus siv often thaum hais lus Hmoob. Piv xam li, "Ob peb"="a few" rau lus Askiv, li "ob peb hnub" = "a few days." Thiab "ib zaug li" = "once." Thiab "lub siab"="liver" lossis "heart," thiab "dawb"="white" thiab "paug"="dirty" tiamsis "lub siab dawb paug"="generous".

"Poj yawm txwv koob" yog nyuaj lawm vim kuv tsis zoo hais lus Hmoob. Kuv xav, "woman-grandfather-lord-needle? Ntawd no means dabtsi?" Ces kuv kawm tias "poj yawm txwv koob" means "ancestors." (Kuv tseem tsis totaub "yeev yuav.")

So, do you have any favorite Hmong expressions?

Nyob zoo os taumntev?

wbmmm....koj mas nyiaj hais tej lus cov tiag os yom. Hais lus li no ces kawg tsis to dib xwb lauj. xav pab koj kawg tab sis kuv twb poob phem li lawm las as.

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It has been a little while since this topic has received new posts. I thought that it would be interesting to redirect the discussion to something that hasn't received much attention. We've been talking about Hmong expressions in general, but what are your favorite Hmong idiomatic expressions? (You know, those phrases that get used all the time, but really wouldn't make sense unless you had heard them before.) I would like to start the discussion with a few Hmong idioms, but I'm not sure that I know any. Of course English has lots of these.

For example: I think we could really bring the house down with this topic. The number of new posts could go through the roof; then I would really be on cloud nine. On the other hand, this idea could just go over like a lead balloon. Some people might incorrectly think that I'm just scraping the bottom of the barrel for new ideas, but I really would like to go whole hog on this one.

Npawg Taum Ntev,

I totally forgot about this awsome topic when I came back from my much needed relaxation spot in China! It''s been too long now, and I'd guessed that at the least, I could have made you a Hmong language expert, now working along side a pretty Hmong girl somewhere, I hope! Don't missionary her too much into christianity....... ahhahaha

What new hmong words would yo like to work on now? Had you develop further into the romantic side of the Hmong soul? something that sound like ai... hehehhehe

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Npawg Taum Ntev,

I totally forgot about this awsome topic when I came back from my much needed relaxation spot in China! It''s been too long now, and I'd guessed that at the least, I could had made you a Hmong language expert, now working alongside a pretty Hmong girl somewhere, I hope! Don't missionary her to much into christianity....... ahhahaha

What new hmong words would yo like to work on now? Had you develop further into the romantic side of the Hmong soul? something that sound like ai... hehehhehe

Phoojywg ChivKeeb! I'm glad to see you back. I was wandering around lost! :) Only now, I'm the one who can't find enough time to get to HZ.

[bTW about the other comment: I would missionary her if I had one, but I still haven't gone Dear hunting. Life keeps me busy enough as it is (and I've only got one shot in my dear hunting gun anyway). So you don't have to worry!]

Which word to work on? I don't even know where to start! There is so much I still don't know. I did come across some words, though, that I can't find in my dictionary... "Khaws nkaus" as in "nej cia li khaws nkaus." I guess that's a good place to pick back up. Oh, yes, I was also wondering about "tojsiab". Does it mean "north" or "hill"? Oh, and I heard someone say "Go home" as "koj tsev mus." Is that correct or should it be "koj mus tsev"? Oh, wait... I'm getting too many questions here all at once.

Actually, though, I have even more questions about the grammar. I'll probably start a topic with some of my grammar questions as soon as I get time.

By the way, here's a story you'll like. Over Christmas I came across a new Hmong phrase--"dab nyuj." I figured that it meant stable or manger-- I just couldn't figure out why they would call it a "cow demon"! A few weeks later, I finally figured out that "dab" can mean "trough" and then it all made perfect sense. Well, just shows what I know <g>.

Have a good evening!

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Phoojywg ChivKeeb! I'm glad to see you back. I was wandering around lost! :) Only now, I'm the one who can't find enough time to get to HZ.

[bTW about the other comment: I would missionary her if I had one, but I still haven't gone Dear hunting. Life keeps me busy enough as it is (and I've only got one shot in my dear hunting gun anyway). So you don't have to worry!]

Which word to work on? I don't even know where to start! There is so much I still don't know. I did come across some words, though, that I can't find in my dictionary... "Khaws nkaus" as in "nej cia li khaws nkaus." I guess that's a good place to pick back up. Oh, yes, I was also wondering about "tojsiab". Does it mean "north" or "hill"? Oh, and I heard someone say "Go home" as "koj tsev mus." Is that correct or should it be "koj mus tsev"? Oh, wait... I'm getting too many questions here all at once.

Actually, though, I have even more questions about the grammar. I'll probably start a topic with some of my grammar questions as soon as I get time.

By the way, here's a story you'll like. Over Christmas I came across a new Hmong phrase--"dab nyuj." I figured that it meant stable or manger-- I just couldn't figure out why they would call it a "cow demon"! A few weeks later, I finally figured out that "dab" can mean "trough" and then it all made perfect sense. Well, just shows what I know <g>.

Have a good evening!

Long Bean bro,

As far as Khaws Nkaus, you've got that one right..... but it doesn't merely just convey the action of picking it up, it means to take it to heart with strong intend to keep it.

Toj is mostly refer to a hilly plane, a natural structure that angle upward in adjective form, but in noun form, it is a hill. Sab means high. So, Tojsab together as a word means the hilly, mountainous regions where Hmong traditionally dwelled.

The term, Koj Tsev moog is not clear here, bro. You could be hearing it all wrong. What come to my mind right now could be a situation where a guest is leaving to soon and the host is asking, "So, you are going?" Koj txawm moog... that's quite likely was what you heard.

Not every word literally stay in its own meaning, when combine with other words, it will transform to achieve a different affect. For example, Yaajsaab; this is a combination of Yaaj (Chinese- Yin Yang; yaajceeb, yeebceeb) and Saab (Chinese - Shan mountain). Yaajsaab in Hmong means the highland.

Next,

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