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Lus Hmoob-Lus Askiv: Hmong phrases

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Nyob zoo nej sawvdaws!

Kuv xav nrhiav expressions uas yus siv often thaum hais lus Hmoob. Piv xam li, "Ob peb"="a few" rau lus Askiv, li "ob peb hnub" = "a few days." Thiab "ib zaug li" = "once." Thiab "lub siab"="liver" lossis "heart," thiab "dawb"="white" thiab "paug"="dirty" tiamsis "lub siab dawb paug"="generous".

"Poj yawm txwv koob" yog nyuaj lawm vim kuv tsis zoo hais lus Hmoob. Kuv xav, "woman-grandfather-lord-needle? Ntawd no means dabtsi?" Ces kuv kawm tias "poj yawm txwv koob" means "ancestors." (Kuv tseem tsis totaub "yeev yuav.")

So, do you have any favorite Hmong expressions?

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Nyob zoo nej sawvdaws!

Kuv xav nrhiav expressions uas yus siv often thaum hais lus Hmoob. Piv xam li, "Ob peb"="a few" rau lus Askiv, li "ob peb hnub" = "a few days." Thiab "ib zaug li" = "once." Thiab "lub siab"="liver" lossis "heart," thiab "dawb"="white" thiab "paug"="dirty" tiamsis "lub siab dawb paug"="generous".

"Poj yawm txwv koob" yog nyuaj lawm vim kuv tsis zoo hais lus Hmoob. Kuv xav, "woman-grandfather-lord-needle? Ntawd no means dabtsi?" Ces kuv kawm tias "poj yawm txwv koob" means "ancestors." (Kuv tseem tsis totaub "yeev yuav.")

So, do you have any favorite Hmong expressions?

Very funny bro..... Woman-grandpa-lord-needle!!!

The word actually said; Puj Yawm Txwv Txoob and not Puj Yawm Txwv Koob - just mean Ancestors, that's all!

Puj Yawm is a Hmong terminology - actually mean paternal grandparents.

Txwv Txoob is a Chinese teminology - actually mean maternal grandparents.

The both of them, Hmong and Chinese combine to actually mean ancestors.

Do you think come think go ( xaav moog xaav lug) now, brother??

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Very funny bro..... Woman-grandpa-lord-needle!!!

The word actually said; Puj Yawm Txwv Txoob and not Puj Yawm Txwv Koob - just mean Ancestors, that's all!

Puj Yawm is a Hmong terminology - actually mean paternal grandparents.

Txwv Txoob is a Chinese teminology - actually mean maternal grandparents.

The both of them, Hmong and Chinese combine to actually mean ancestors.

Do you think come think go ( xaav moog xaav lug) now, brother??

Ua tsaug for the explanation. Kuv paub lub lo lus no means "ancestors" lawm, tiamsis kuv tsis paub vim li cas. Nimno kuv paub!

Do you think come think go ( xaav moog xaav lug) now, brother??

O.K. I'm thinking that's the same as "xav mus xav los." I've seen that one before. I should know it... Let's see.... Koj puas nug tias if kuv yog unsure about lub lo lus "Puj Yawm Txwv Txoob"? Am I right? :)

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CKFY,

I think say (kuv xaav hastas) koj yuav yug expert rua phaab nuav lawm, kuv ca koj nrug taumntev (long bean) thaam .. Kuv maamle nqaa tog tuaj zaum saiv pov...ooops! Tsis yog lawm ...

Edited by Khej1

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Ua tsaug for the explanation. Kuv paub lub lo lus no means "ancestors" lawm, tiamsis kuv tsis paub vim li cas. Nimno kuv paub!

O.K. I'm thinking that's the same as "xav mus xav los." I've seen that one before. I should know it... Let's see.... Koj puas nug tias if kuv yog unsure about lub lo lus "Puj Yawm Txwv Txoob"? Am I right? smile.gif

Brother long bean,

I asked you, "Did you ever think much, back and forth about the word puj yawm txwv txoob?" You see, us Hmong had much longer history rooted in the mother land, Tuam Tshoj in China.

Our terminology, culture and leaders pretty much influenced the old China and we've also adopted and adapted many chinese terminology, philosophy and culture to fit our use too. For example Faajtim Fuabtais and Vaaj;

Faajtim is Chinese terminology (Huang Di) mean emperor.

Fuabtais is Hmong adopted of Huang Di to mean emperor.

Vaaj is Chinese terminology (Wang) means King.

Vaaj is Hmong terminology also means King too... (Vaaj Moob)

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CKFY,

I think say (kuv xaav hastas) koj yuav yug expert rua phaab nuav lawm, kuv ca koj nrug taumntev (long bean) thaam .. Kuv maamle nqaa tog tuaj zaum saiv pov...ooops! Tsis yog lawm ...

Khej1,

Koj yuav nyob saib xwb los tau los mas - tsi txhob zaum ntsia ov tsaam zuav ceg lawm nawb... Zaum is actually influenced by the chinese word 坐 Zuò...... Kuv tsuas yog tshawb caj tshawb tuag xwb os Khej ov! Koj yuav has tas kuv yog 專家 Zhuānjiā - Tseebcuab (expert) le caag naw???

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CKFY,

I think say (kuv xaav hastas) koj yuav yug expert rua phaab nuav lawm, kuv ca koj nrug taumntev (long bean) thaam .. Kuv maamle nqaa tog tuaj zaum saiv pov...ooops! Tsis yog lawm ...

Uh Oh, nimno kuv paub tias kuv yog in language trouble. I can't even find some of these words in my dictionary (viz. rua, phaab, nuav, thaam, nqaa, "saiv pov"). Could it be because my both of my dictionaries are Hmoob Dawb? (Piv xamli, kuv dictionaries tsis hais lo lus "kuv xaav hastas" tiamsis nws hais lo lus "kuv xav hais tias.")I'm afraid that I need some help understanding this post. Thanks for your patience. :) I'm spending a lot of time learning, so I hope that soon I'll be better at this.

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Brother long bean,

I asked you, "Did you ever think much, back and forth about the word puj yawm txwv txoob?" You see, us Hmong had much longer history rooted in the mother land, Tuam Tshoj in China.

Our terminology, culture and leaders pretty much influenced the old China and we've also adopted and adapted many chinese terminology, philosophy and culture to fit our use too. For example Faajtim Fuabtais and Vaaj;

Faajtim is Chinese terminology (Huang Di) mean emperor.

Fuabtais is Hmong adopted of Huang Di to mean emperor.

Vaaj is Chinese terminology (Wang) means King.

Vaaj is Hmong terminology also means King too... (Vaaj Moob)

Ua koj tsaug for the correction. No, I never thought much about the word before today--except for the first time I saw it and was trying to figure out what a "woman-grandpa-lord-needle" was! So, "xav mus xav los" could mean "ponder"? Interesting.... I'll have to see if I can work it into my conversation some time.

Here are some more expressions that I thought of:

"Kev noj kev haus"

"tus kws xyuas khoom qub"("worker who looks at old stuff")="archeologist"

"dav hlau"("metal hawk")="airplane"

"vaj tsev"("garden, house")="home"

"dej qabzib"("sweet water")="soda"

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Ua koj tsaug for the correction. No, I never thought much about the word before today--except for the first time I saw it and was trying to figure out what a "woman-grandpa-lord-needle" was! So, "xav mus xav los" could mean "ponder"? Interesting.... I'll have to see if I can work it into my conversation some time.

Here are some more expressions that I thought of:

"Kev noj kev haus"

"tus kws xyuas khoom qub"("worker who looks at old stuff")="archeologist"

"dav hlau"("metal hawk")="airplane"

"vaj tsev"("garden, house")="home"

"dej qabzib"("sweet water")="soda"

Bro Long Bean,

Yeah bro, your dictionary is white, while my dialect is Shee!!

I figured you might not be Hmong, or even if you are, you might be so young and unaware after all! Just like I was about 20 years ago... How did you got the idea for your nick any way!

So..... you wanna go word for word.... wow what an interesting idea indeed, I have never look at it that way! hahhahaha

"Our faminly's way eat way drink is so good, we are all overweight!"

"My garden house is so big, every one is dreaming about sleeping in it!"

Immagine... Hmonglish could mean more advance Hmong terminology... WOW!

My father said he was a monkey soldier in the jungle of Laos, now he got yellow ears for a long time in the States!"

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Bro Long Bean,

Yeah bro, your dictionary is white, while my dialect is Shee!!

I figured you might not be Hmong, or even if you are, you might be so young and unaware after all! Just like I was about 20 years ago... How did you got the idea for your nick any way!

So..... you wanna go word for word.... wow what an interesting idea indeed, I have never look at it that way! hahhahaha

"Our faminly's way eat way drink is so good, we are all overweight!"

"My garden house is so big, every one is dreaming about sleeping in it!"

Immagine... Hmonglish could mean more advance Hmong terminology... WOW!

My father said he was a monkey soldier in the jungle of Laos, now he got yellow ears for a long time in the States!"

Yes, my Hmonglish is pretty rough. I wish I wasn't just going word for word, but its just about my only way to learn the thought pattern of the language right now. (Just like the fact that I had to learn to read Hmong before I could learn to speak it.) You were correct: I'm not actually Hmong--just a plain, ordinary neeg Mekas-- but I have been learning the language for a little over a year now. I chose Hmoob Dawb because that's what the Hmong people that I know are speaking. Incidentally, most of the Hmong language-learning materials on the internet (which are not many) are White Hmong, so that helped. I actually can speak some Hmong and be understood. And I usually recognize most of the words when I'm reading, but I have to use my dictionaries a lot when I'm trying to read/write (especially when I come across compound words and expressions).

About my screen name... I have a Hmong name but I'm not completely sure how to spell it, so I had to just pick something else when I was registering for this forum. I like plants and gardening and I work in lawn care, so I often use different plants for account names. Taum is an easy one to remember. I didn't just want taum, though, because I know that a lot of Hmong words have more than one meaning. I thought I would be safer with "taumntev." I'm actually not exactly sure what a "long bean" is, but it sounds like a green bean and those are always nice. (I just got through picking about six pounds of them out of my garden today.) So, no special story around the nickname except my lack of vocabulary.

One more thing about the word-for-word stuff. I've been using computer flash cards to learn new words in Hmong. (They are not always 100% accurate, but that's a different story.) Its not very easy to remember phrases unless I find out what they mean word-for-word. A lot of them I will probably never use anyway, but at least I learn all the little words that are used in them. For example, one of my flashcards was "tus neeg ya mus saum hnub qub"="astronaut." I don't think I will ever use "the person fly go above stars" in conversation, but at least I learned "ya" and "hnub qub." Maybe I'll get to use those words. Anyway....

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Yes, my Hmonglish is pretty rough. I wish I wasn't just going word for word, but its just about my only way to learn the thought pattern of the language right now. (Just like the fact that I had to learn to read Hmong before I could learn to speak it.) You were correct: I'm not actually Hmong--just a plain, ordinary neeg Mekas-- but I have been learning the language for a little over a year now. I chose Hmoob Dawb because that's what the Hmong people that I know are speaking. Incidentally, most of the Hmong language-learning materials on the internet (which are not many) are White Hmong, so that helped. I actually can speak some Hmong and be understood. And I usually recognize most of the words when I'm reading, but I have to use my dictionaries a lot when I'm trying to read/write (especially when I come across compound words and expressions).

About my screen name... I have a Hmong name but I'm not completely sure how to spell it, so I had to just pick something else when I was registering for this forum. I like plants and gardening and I work in lawn care, so I often use different plants for account names. Taum is an easy one to remember. I didn't just want taum, though, because I know that a lot of Hmong words have more than one meaning. I thought I would be safer with "taumntev." I'm actually not exactly sure what a "long bean" is, but it sounds like a green bean and those are always nice. (I just got through picking about six pounds of them out of my garden today.) So, no special story around the nickname except my lack of vocabulary.

One more thing about the word-for-word stuff. I've been using computer flash cards to learn new words in Hmong. (They are not always 100% accurate, but that's a different story.) Its not very easy to remember phrases unless I find out what they mean word-for-word. A lot of them I will probably never use anyway, but at least I learn all the little words that are used in them. For example, one of my flashcards was "tus neeg ya mus saum hnub qub"="astronaut." I don't think I will ever use "the person fly go above stars" in conversation, but at least I learned "ya" and "hnub qub." Maybe I'll get to use those words. Anyway....

Npawg Taum Ntev,

Word for word will not get a 100% of the expression - a combination of the words could mean a whole new meaning! So as you come along, and strut it out with the local, you will hang around like a bean pod for real! Hmong as a language is not as complicated as English, but it's also not as very expressive!

Moob tsi muaj Taum Ntev, cov taum ntev ntev Moob hu ua Taum Laag. Taum Laag is not green beans, it is Taum Hlaab Tshos! Taum Laag is actually Long Beans.

As for Astronaut, I don't think Hmong should need a whole sentence just to express it. I love to subtitute a new terminology I've pondered sometime - I don't know if the word will be acceptable to other though!

Theeb Tswv Fuab = Astronaut

Theeb = A Hmong terminology equivalent to Chinese Tiān - to mean Heaven.

Tswv = Also a Hmong terminology equivalent to to Chinese zhǔ - to mean Owner.

Fuab (Huab in White Hmong dialect) = Cloud - to actually mean up in the cloud, or atmosphere.

Hmong are just lazy to use archaic languages and such are being lost as time pass, all we have to do is to bring into focus, the more obsecure terminology no longer used....

Yaam noj tsi noj yuav lwj, yaam lug tsi has yuav qwj!

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Word for word will not get a 100% of the expression - a combination of the words could mean a whole new meaning! So as you come along, and strut it out with the local, you will hang around like a bean pod for real!

[/qoute]

Kuv paub tseeb! Kuv hope tias kuv "Hmonglish" tsis yuav embarass kuv heev thaum kuv siv tham. It will probably happen a few times though! Kuv paub ib txhia lub lus li "compound words" xwb tiag. For example, kuv paub koj lub npe "chivkeeb" means "beginning", li ntawd phau ntawv ib Bible hu ua "Chivkeeb". Tiamsis, kuv tsis paub "chiv" means li cas. Ib txhia lwm lub lus uas yus tsis txawj separate tiag tiag yog "lossis" "tiamsis" "tomqab" "ib puas" "qab zib" "tagkis", etc. On the other hand, some of the expressions will just take time, practice, and conversation.

Yaam noj tsi noj yuav lwj, yaam lug tsi has yuav qwj!

Let's see if I've got this right: "The food not eaten will decay, the word not spoken will disappear!"

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br />Word for word will not get a 100% of the expression - a combination of the words could mean a whole new meaning! So as you come along, and strut it out with the local, you will hang around like a bean pod for real!

[/qoute]

Kuv paub tseeb! Kuv hope tias kuv "Hmonglish" tsis yuav embarass kuv heev thaum kuv siv tham. It will probably happen a few times though! Kuv paub ib txhia lub lus li "compound words" xwb tiag. For example, kuv paub koj lub npe "chivkeeb" means "beginning", li ntawd phau ntawv ib Bible hu ua "Chivkeeb". Tiamsis, kuv tsis paub "chiv" means li cas. Ib txhia lwm lub lus uas yus tsis txawj separate tiag tiag yog "lossis" "tiamsis" "tomqab" "ib puas" "qab zib" "tagkis", etc. On the other hand, some of the expressions will just take time, practice, and conversation.

Let's see if I've got this right: "The food not eaten will decay, the word not spoken will disappear!"

Bro Taum Ntev,

Just the past 10 years alone, I've never cared much aoubt Hmong! Hmong could never artistically expressed my mind - so I've been strutting English like I was a little white man.... My father however was frutstrated by my choice of spoken language - because I was not born a TRUE white man!!

I've pondered my situation and made a dicision to show my self and my Dad that I can be a True xeeb zeej xeeb ntxwv Moob by speaking Hmong - I have since improved alot to be egual any Hmong in term of my capacity to use the language, but I still lack many culturals, beliefs, and philosophical, or metaphysical behind it all...

I've found out that more than half of Hmong words spoken today have had some deep connections with Mandarin and or dialectical Chinese one way or another - finding a drop of Hmong fresh water in the vast Chinese oceans will clarify and bring to light the many SOUR relationships between the both of them through the millenium - that's my cup of tea now!

Bro Taum ntev, go ahead and try this one, if you really want to be proficient in Hmong;

"Niam txiv Faj Tim caim Pem Ceeb, Lij Lim txaim Thoob Theeb, nyem no koj sawv los txum vim Tuam tshoj tim lwm tshoj theeb, tuam tswb tshoj lwm tswb peeb.... "

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Bro Taum Ntev,

Just the past 10 years alone, I've never cared much aoubt Hmong! Hmong could never artistically expressed my mind - so I've been strutting English like I was a little white man.... My father however was frutstrated by my choice of spoken language - because I was not born a TRUE white man!!

I've pondered my situation and made a dicision to show my self and my Dad that I can be a True xeeb zeej xeeb ntxwv Moob by speaking Hmong - I have since improved alot to be egual any Hmong in term of my capacity to use the language, but I still lack many culturals, beliefs, and philosophical, or metaphysical behind it all...

I've found out that more than half of Hmong words spoken today have had some deep connections with Mandarin and or dialectical Chinese one way or another - finding a drop of Hmong fresh water in the vast Chinese oceans will clarify and bring to light the many SOUR relationships between the both of them through the millenium - that's my cup of tea now!

Bro Taum ntev, go ahead and try this one, if you really want to be proficient in Hmong;

"Niam txiv Faj Tim caim Pem Ceeb, Lij Lim txaim Thoob Theeb, nyem no koj sawv los txum vim Tuam tshoj tim lwm tshoj theeb, tuam tswb tshoj lwm tswb peeb.... "

O.K. Here goes an attempt: "Parent Emperor rules Citizens, Oppressor catches Oppressed. You, the poor, rebel because Oppression rouses the fight, rouses the alarm of the oppressed, the alarm of the soldier....

Wow! That reminds me of a lot of Irish songs I've heard.

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O.K. Here goes an attempt: "Parent Emperor rules Citizens, Oppressor catches Oppressed. You, the poor, rebel because Oppression rouses the fight, rouses the alarm of the oppressed, the alarm of the soldier....

Wow! That reminds me of a lot of Irish songs I've heard.

Taumntev,

You sure you counsel your trusted White Hmong Dictionary? Look like you are off by a whole universe! Anyway you give me quite a good laugh here.......

"Niam txiv Faj Tim caim Pem Ceeb, Lij Lim txaim Thoob Theeb, nyem no koj sawv los txum vim Tuam tshoj tim lwm tshoj theeb, tuam tswb tshoj lwm tswb peeb.... "

Niam Txiv = Parent; Faj Tim = Emperor........ that's all you've got! Everything else is mumble jumble! Not to worry though bro, most Hmong don't even get these words - because like I said, they are Hmong archaic language - magical incantation to induce the supreme spiritual overseer!

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Nyob zoo nej sawvdaws!

Kuv xav nrhiav expressions uas yus siv often thaum hais lus Hmoob. Piv xam li, "Ob peb"="a few" rau lus Askiv, li "ob peb hnub" = "a few days." Thiab "ib zaug li" = "once." Thiab "lub siab"="liver" lossis "heart," thiab "dawb"="white" thiab "paug"="dirty" tiamsis "lub siab dawb paug"="generous".

"Poj yawm txwv koob" yog nyuaj lawm vim kuv tsis zoo hais lus Hmoob. Kuv xav, "woman-grandfather-lord-needle? Ntawd no means dabtsi?" Ces kuv kawm tias "poj yawm txwv koob" means "ancestors." (Kuv tseem tsis totaub "yeev yuav.")

So, do you have any favorite Hmong expressions?

Paug = yog verb thiab yog adjective ces kuj yuav txhais li koj hais, tiam sis qhov lawm siv ntawd yog noun lawm uas txhais hais tias "abcess". Tej paug uas ua rwj yeej yog dawb dawb xwb es thiaj hais tias dawb cuag paug. Thaum muab los cuag tso tseg ces thiaj ua dawb paug lawm xwb.

Poj yawm txwv koob = kuj yog txhais li Chivkeeb hais thiab tiam sis kuj tsis yog tas tas. Pojyawm yog lus Hmoob txwv koob (txwv txoob) yog lus Suav. Suav hais meej meej tias "txum txoo." Txwv zeej txwv txoob yog muab hais ua lus Suav ces yog "txum zen2 txum txoo." Tej ntawd yog cov uas yug yus niam yus txiv thiab pog yawg lawv.

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Taumntev,

You sure you counsel your trusted White Hmong Dictionary? Look like you are off by a whole universe! Anyway you give me quite a good laugh here.......

"Niam txiv Faj Tim caim Pem Ceeb, Lij Lim txaim Thoob Theeb, nyem no koj sawv los txum vim Tuam tshoj tim lwm tshoj theeb, tuam tswb tshoj lwm tswb peeb.... "

Niam Txiv = Parent; Faj Tim = Emperor........ that's all you've got! Everything else is mumble jumble! Not to worry though bro, most Hmong don't even get these words - because like I said, they are Hmong archaic language - magical incantation to induce the supreme spiritual overseer!

Well, I use my dictionaries a lot, but I don't really trust them!<g> They have misdirected me too many times. OK. Many of these words aren't in either of my dictionaries. Can I poll the audience on this one? Oh, I know! I'll phone a friend in Laos. Wait.... I don't know anyone in Laos! Uh oh, I'm stuck.

Seriously, though, here's a snapshot of how I came up with that translation:

Text: Niam txiv Faj Tim caim Pem Ceeb, Lij Lim txaim Thoob Theeb, nyem no koj sawv los txum vim Tuam tshoj tim lwm tshoj theeb, tuam tswb tshoj lwm tswb peeb....

Step 1) translate words I know already:

Parent Faj Tim caim Pem Ceeb, Lij Lim txaim Thoob Theeb, nyem this you rise come txum because Tuam tshoj tim lwm (other?) tshoj theeb, tuam tswb tshoj lwm [other?] tswb peeb....

Step 2) look up words I don't know:

Faj Tim=emporer; caim= not in dictionaries, maybe it was supposed to be cai=rule; Pem Ceeb=not in dictionaries, maybe it was supposed to be "Pej xeem"=citizen; Lij Lim=not in dictionaries, no meaningful google results on word; txaim= not in dictionaries, maybe it was supposed to be txais=to catch; nyem=poor, destitute or squeeze, compress; Thoob Theeb= not in dictionaries; txum=not in dictionaries alone, "txum loom"= to harm esp. to the deceased so bad fortune will happen to the living, "txum paj"=mattress, "txumtim"=native, etc.; tuam=to kick something (Knowing that "tsuj" has a similar meaning but figuratively means oppressed, that meaning seemed to make sense); tshoj=to rouse, to impel, to stimulate; tim= to face someone or something; lwm="others"; theeb= to eat by taking very small amounts only; tswb=bell or alarm; peeb=leech but "peeb zeej"=soldier and leech didn't seem to fit with everything else.

Step 3) Try to make it fit together:

Parent Emporer rule (or law)? citizen?, Lij Lim catch? Thoob Theeb, these poor rise, come, do harm?, because Kick (or Oppressed?) rouse to face the other, rouse eat-only-little, kicked alarm rouse other alarm soldier?....

Guessing at the meaning of Lij Lim and Thoob Theeb, this becomes:

Parent Emperor rules citizens, Oppressor catches Oppressed, these poor rebel because Oppression rouses the fight, rouses the alarm of the oppressed, the alarm of the soldier....

Obviously I got this one way wrong, but this is how I came up with that answer. As you can see, my dictionaries weren't much help. I had to guess on most of it and most were words that I hadn't come across before. Usually I recognize most of the words I read, but sometimes I really get messed up. Well, I'm afraid I've got a hung jury on this one. Oh well, I guess its time to hit the books again. :)

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Well, I use my dictionaries a lot, but I don't really trust them!<g> They have misdirected me too many times. OK. Many of these words aren't in either of my dictionaries. Can I poll the audience on this one? Oh, I know! I'll phone a friend in Laos. Wait.... I don't know anyone in Laos! Uh oh, I'm stuck.

Seriously, though, here's a snapshot of how I came up with that translation:

Text: Niam txiv Faj Tim caim Pem Ceeb, Lij Lim txaim Thoob Theeb, nyem no koj sawv los txum vim Tuam tshoj tim lwm tshoj theeb, tuam tswb tshoj lwm tswb peeb....

Step 1) translate words I know already:

Parent Faj Tim caim Pem Ceeb, Lij Lim txaim Thoob Theeb, nyem this you rise come txum because Tuam tshoj tim lwm (other?) tshoj theeb, tuam tswb tshoj lwm [other?] tswb peeb....

Step 2) look up words I don't know:

Faj Tim=emporer; caim= not in dictionaries, maybe it was supposed to be cai=rule; Pem Ceeb=not in dictionaries, maybe it was supposed to be "Pej xeem"=citizen; Lij Lim=not in dictionaries, no meaningful google results on word; txaim= not in dictionaries, maybe it was supposed to be txais=to catch; nyem=poor, destitute or squeeze, compress; Thoob Theeb= not in dictionaries; txum=not in dictionaries alone, "txum loom"= to harm esp. to the deceased so bad fortune will happen to the living, "txum paj"=mattress, "txumtim"=native, etc.; tuam=to kick something (Knowing that "tsuj" has a similar meaning but figuratively means oppressed, that meaning seemed to make sense); tshoj=to rouse, to impel, to stimulate; tim= to face someone or something; lwm="others"; theeb= to eat by taking very small amounts only; tswb=bell or alarm; peeb=leech but "peeb zeej"=soldier and leech didn't seem to fit with everything else.

Step 3) Try to make it fit together:

Parent Emporer rule (or law)? citizen?, Lij Lim catch? Thoob Theeb, these poor rise, come, do harm?, because Kick (or Oppressed?) rouse to face the other, rouse eat-only-little, kicked alarm rouse other alarm soldier?....

Guessing at the meaning of Lij Lim and Thoob Theeb, this becomes:

Parent Emperor rules citizens, Oppressor catches Oppressed, these poor rebel because Oppression rouses the fight, rouses the alarm of the oppressed, the alarm of the soldier....

Obviously I got this one way wrong, but this is how I came up with that answer. As you can see, my dictionaries weren't much help. I had to guess on most of it and most were words that I hadn't come across before. Usually I recognize most of the words I read, but sometimes I really get messed up. Well, I'm afraid I've got a hung jury on this one. Oh well, I guess its time to hit the books again. smile.gif

Bro Taum Ntev,

Hmong know so little about their spoken language, the very ROOTS that branches into many! Not only that, many Hmongza members are not interest in topics that discuss it too.... No wonder Hmong terminology keep disapearing!!!

There's a member who was quite amzaing in connecting archaic and modern Hmong that make sense - a lot of Hmong languages originators (creators) for example; Phaj Hauj used so much Chinese terminology, the reason, they claimed old China had borrowed Hmong and forbid Hmong to used their written language, which the Chinses also adapted to their own uses.... and now they rightfully extracted back from Chinese sourses what was rightfully Hmong!

"Niam txiv Faj Tim caim Pem Ceeb, Lij Lim txaim Thoob Theeb, nyem no koj sawv los txum vim Tuam tshoj tim lwm tshoj theeb, tuam tswb tshoj lwm tswb peeb.... "

As per your literal translation, let's look at what I have here;

"Niam txiv vaj ntxwv nyob pem ntuj (beijing), laj lim nyob thoob ntuj, nim no koj cia li sawv tsees los nres nroos rau ntawm daim av loj qhov av yau uas muaj yawm tswb tshoj cov leem."

I should say, as you spend your time learning Hmong here in Hmongza, maybe you can check out this post:

Try it bro,

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Bro Taum Ntev,

Hmong know so little about their spoken language, the very ROOTS that branches into many! Not only that, many Hmongza members are not interest in topics that discuss it too.... No wonder Hmong terminology keep disapearing!!!

There's a member who was quite amzaing in connecting archaic and modern Hmong that make sense - a lot of Hmong languages originators (creators) for example; Phaj Hauj used so much Chinese terminology, the reason, they claimed old China had borrowed Hmong and forbid Hmong to used their written language, which the Chinses also adapted to their own uses.... and now they rightfully extracted back from Chinese sourses what was rightfully Hmong!

"Niam txiv Faj Tim caim Pem Ceeb, Lij Lim txaim Thoob Theeb, nyem no koj sawv los txum vim Tuam tshoj tim lwm tshoj theeb, tuam tswb tshoj lwm tswb peeb.... "

As per your literal translation, let's look at what I have here;

"Niam txiv vaj ntxwv nyob pem ntuj (beijing), laj lim nyob thoob ntuj, nim no koj cia li sawv tsees los nres nroos rau ntawm daim av loj qhov av yau uas muaj yawm tswb tshoj cov leem."

I should say, as you spend your time learning Hmong here in Hmongza, maybe you can check out this post:

Try it bro,

Chivkeeb,

Koj mas tshaj lij tshaj tiag li. kav tsij rua siab ua, kuv mam tuaj nrog Taumntev neb kawm thiab

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Bro Taum Ntev,

Hmong know so little about their spoken language, the very ROOTS that branches into many! Not only that, many Hmongza members are not interest in topics that discuss it too.... No wonder Hmong terminology keep disapearing!!!

There's a member who was quite amzaing in connecting archaic and modern Hmong that make sense - a lot of Hmong languages originators (creators) for example; Phaj Hauj used so much Chinese terminology, the reason, they claimed old China had borrowed Hmong and forbid Hmong to used their written language, which the Chinses also adapted to their own uses.... and now they rightfully extracted back from Chinese sourses what was rightfully Hmong!

"Niam txiv Faj Tim caim Pem Ceeb, Lij Lim txaim Thoob Theeb, nyem no koj sawv los txum vim Tuam tshoj tim lwm tshoj theeb, tuam tswb tshoj lwm tswb peeb.... "

As per your literal translation, let's look at what I have here;

"Niam txiv vaj ntxwv nyob pem ntuj (beijing), laj lim nyob thoob ntuj, nim no koj cia li sawv tsees los nres nroos rau ntawm daim av loj qhov av yau uas muaj yawm tswb tshoj cov leem."

I should say, as you spend your time learning Hmong here in Hmongza, maybe you can check out this post:

Try it bro,

Here's as close as I can come to a translation:

"Parent-ruler abiding in Beijing, Laj lim abiding in thoob ntuj, now you must immediately rise and come to stand near to the land loj qhov av yau that has yawm tswb tshoj cov leem."

I looked through the link that you posted to the other forum topic, but it will take me a little while to go through it more thoroughly. I noticed the forum post that contains the above quote, but couldn't pick up on any clues as to what the remaining words might mean. I couldn't find a definition of "leem" and I couldn't come up with very plausible translations of the other terms that I left untranslated. (For example, I'm pretty sure "bucket heaven" is not the correct translation of "thoob ntuj"!) Does "yawm tswb tshoj" refer to a specific person or dynasty, perhaps?

Thanks for the help!

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Here's as close as I can come to a translation:

"Parent-ruler abiding in Beijing, Laj lim abiding in thoob ntuj, now you must immediately rise and come to stand near to the land loj qhov av yau that has yawm tswb tshoj cov leem."

I looked through the link that you posted to the other forum topic, but it will take me a little while to go through it more thoroughly. I noticed the forum post that contains the above quote, but couldn't pick up on any clues as to what the remaining words might mean. I couldn't find a definition of "leem" and I couldn't come up with very plausible translations of the other terms that I left untranslated. (For example, I'm pretty sure "bucket heaven" is not the correct translation of "thoob ntuj"!) Does "yawm tswb tshoj" refer to a specific person or dynasty, perhaps?

Thanks for the help!

Bro Taum Ntev,

Again here my composition.......

"Niam txiv Faj Tim caim Pem Ceeb, Lij Lim txaim Thoob Theeb, nyem no koj sawv los txum vim Tuam tshoj tim lwm tshoj theeb, tuam tswb tshoj lwm tswb peeb.... "

And here is the correct transliteration of the composition...

"Niam txiv vaj ntxwv nyob pem ntuj (beijing), laj lim nyob thoob ntuj, nim no koj cia li sawv tsees los nres nroos rau ntawm daim av loj qhov av yau uas muaj yawm tswb tshoj cov leem."

Niamtxiv = Parents

fajtim = Emperor

Caim = Txaij (Chinese term for Nyob) = live

Pem Ceeb = Beijing

Lij Lim (Chinese term) Laj Lim Hmong term = Tswvyim (also Chinese term) Idea

Txaim; Txaij (same word, different tone) Chinese term = Nyob = live

Thoob (Hmong & Chinese share same word) = entire, all

Theeb (Hmong term equivalent to Chinese Tian) = Heaven

Tuam (Hmong term equivalent to Chinese Da) = Big (Every time Hmong use the vowel UA, Chinese use A)

Tuam Tshoj (Hmong term equivaletn to Chinese Da Chu) = Motherland Chu

Tim (Hmong term euivalent to Chinese Di) = Emperor

Lwm (Hmong term equivalet to Chinese Liang) = the second, lower than the First

Tshoj ( Hmong & Chinese share same term) = Dynasty

Lwm Tshoj Theeb = Lesser heaven

Tswb Tshoj = the Hmong kingdom of Chu

Tswb Peeb = the soldier of kingdom Chu

Peeb (Hmong and Chinese share same term, in Chinese it's Bing) Soldier

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Here's as close as I can come to a translation:

"Parent-ruler abiding in Beijing, Laj lim abiding in thoob ntuj, now you must immediately rise and come to stand near to the land loj qhov av yau that has yawm tswb tshoj cov leem."

I looked through the link that you posted to the other forum topic, but it will take me a little while to go through it more thoroughly. I noticed the forum post that contains the above quote, but couldn't pick up on any clues as to what the remaining words might mean. I couldn't find a definition of "leem" and I couldn't come up with very plausible translations of the other terms that I left untranslated. (For example, I'm pretty sure "bucket heaven" is not the correct translation of "thoob ntuj"!) Does "yawm tswb tshoj" refer to a specific person or dynasty, perhaps?

Thanks for the help!

Brother Long Bean,

Go to check on this link, focus on the very first post #1 - see if you can understand some of them!

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Brother Long Bean,

Go to check on this link, focus on the very first post #1 - see if you can understand some of them!

Ua tsuag for the link. Kuv yuav luag give up sim nyeem on post #1. Kuv yuav luag tsis totaub dabtsi kuj thaum kuv siv kuv phau ntawv qhia ntsiab lus. Tiamsis kuv txawj nyeem the other posts lawm without much trouble.

Interestingly, I was memorizing something in Hmong this morning and it had the word "haivneeg" in it. I hadn't looked up the word yet by the time I went through the link you posted; and there, in the title was "haivneeg". One of the first translation problems I ran into when learning Hmong was attempting to translate the word "kingdom". I had come just to use the word "tebchaws," but that just isn't quite the same. I was actually trying to learn by translating John Wesley's "The Way to the Kingdom". I had to translate the title as "Txojkev rau lub tebchaws Vajtswv". In the case of a specific earthly king, I would probably have used "tebchaws Huabtais __" to try to approximate the meaning of "kingdom." I'm wondering now if "haivneeg" might be better than "tebchaws", though. Just thinking out loud.....

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Ua tsuag for the link. Kuv yuav luag give up sim nyeem on post #1. Kuv yuav luag tsis totaub dabtsi kuj thaum kuv siv kuv phau ntawv qhia ntsiab lus. Tiamsis kuv txawj nyeem the other posts lawm without much trouble.

Interestingly, I was memorizing something in Hmong this morning and it had the word "haivneeg" in it. I hadn't looked up the word yet by the time I went through the link you posted; and there, in the title was "haivneeg". One of the first translation problems I ran into when learning Hmong was attempting to translate the word "kingdom". I had come just to use the word "tebchaws," but that just isn't quite the same. I was actually trying to learn by translating John Wesley's "The Way to the Kingdom". I had to translate the title as "Txojkev rau lub tebchaws Vajtswv". In the case of a specific earthly king, I would probably have used "tebchaws Huabtais __" to try to approximate the meaning of "kingdom." I'm wondering now if "haivneeg" might be better than "tebchaws", though. Just thinking out loud.....

Bro Taum Ntev,

Hmong have no exact word for kingdom that I know of, but we do have Kuj Cuab, the quivalent of Guójiā in Chinese for country. Tebchaws in Hmong is never really a term for country. It is best only to denote the locality of a certain area. For example; ' Peb saab tebchaws Xeev mas muaj dlaab zaaj coob heev.'

Haivneeg is a Hmong term for RACE of people. Ex. ' Peb haiv Moob yog ib haivneeg sab zoo heev.' Haivneeg would never replace kuj Cuab. Kuj Cuab peb Moob yog Haiv Moob ib lub kuj cuab muaj meej nto moo yaav neej thaum ntxuv. Moob Txiv Yawg coj Haiv Moob Kaav Moob kuj cuab Cuaj Lig Ntuj.

John Wesley's "The Way to the Kingdom" should be translate as, 'Txujkev Moog Sau Ntuj.' By the way Ntuj does not always mean heaven! It can denote a period of time or an empire... Ex. Tuam Ntuj (Da Tu-Chinese) was the ancient town of Khan Balik in Yuan Dynastry which later became Beijing as we know today.

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Bro Taum Ntev,

Hmong have no exact word for kingdom that I know of, but we do have Kuj Cuab, the quivalent of Guójiā in Chinese for country. Tebchaws in Hmong is never really a term for country. It is best only to denote the locality of a certain area. For example; ' Peb saab tebchaws Xeev mas muaj dlaab zaaj coob heev.'

Haivneeg is a Hmong term for RACE of people. Ex. ' Peb haiv Moob yog ib haivneeg sab zoo heev.' Haivneeg would never replace kuj Cuab. Kuj Cuab peb Moob yog Haiv Moob ib lub kuj cuab muaj meej nto moo yaav neej thaum ntxuv. Moob Txiv Yawg coj Haiv Moob Kaav Moob kuj cuab Cuaj Lig Ntuj.

John Wesley's "The Way to the Kingdom" should be translate as, 'Txujkev Moog Sau Ntuj.' By the way Ntuj does not always mean heaven! It can denote a period of time or an empire... Ex. Tuam Ntuj (Da Tu-Chinese) was the ancient town of Khan Balik in Yuan Dynastry which later became Beijing as we know today.

Sorry uas kuv tsis sau hauv yam forum no for so long. Its been about a week now-- I guess thing just get busy quickly.

Ua tsaug for the info on "kingdom." I actually had never come across "Kuj Cuab" before. Its not in my dictionaries. (... You knew that was coming, didn't you?) I have also used a Hmong New Testament in my study and I haven't come across the word there either, but I did take a closer look at the terms it uses. Kuv "Vajtswv Txojlus Phau Tshiab" siv lub lo lus "Tebchaws" to mean a geographical area like Judea or Galilee thiab nws siv lub lo lus "haivneeg uas Vajtswv kav" lossis "Vajtswv los kav neeg lub siab" to mean "the kingdom of God."

As you point out, I've noticed that "heaven" can be a sticky word too. Sometimes yus siv lub lo lus "ntuj" thaib sometimes "ceeb tsheej." I've seen it argued that the term "ceeb tsheej" is a little misleading, though.

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