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Txhim kho ntawv Hmoob

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Vajhuamsibluag thiab cwjmemdub, Kuv nyeem koj cov lus qhia txog lub tswv yim los sis cov neeg xws lid Committee Hmoob thiab Muas Liab kom nej sawv daws los sau tus Ntawv Hmoob Las Tees lid lawd pom zoo ces qhia tau hais tias nej tsis xav los pom ntawm nej tus kheej hais tias qhov twg yog qhov tseeb qhov cuam, cia lid ua lid lwm tus ua thiab hais xwb. Koj ho hais tias nej cov sau Ntawv Hmoob Las Tees lid nej sau tsis yog los ANGLICIZE ntawv Hmoob, es tus ntawv B, J, and BL yog suab dab tsid mad? Txhob dag nej tus kheej os nawb. Zoo lid no es kuv thiaj kom nej sawv daws rov mus kawm tus ntawv Hmoob Las Tees thiab tus ntawv As Kiv kom meej zog tso mam rov qab los tawm lub tswv yim tshiab nod ned yog pheej yuav npav los kho tus ntawv nod nas. Hos qhov koj piav txog tus HYPHEN, coj los ua compound words in English, nws kuj tsis yog npaum lid koj hais os nawb. Piv txwv, kuv twb sau tus hyphen nod ned - es cov ntawv nod pus yog compound words mad? Tus HYPHEN mas tsuas muab coj los siv rau cov lus As Kiv, compound words, tsis formal English nyob hauv Ntawv As Kiv xwb os nawb lid koj lo lus "go-down-the-drain". Zoo lid nod es kuv thiab pheej hais tias nej yuav tau mus kawm tus ntawv US-English kom meej zog no ned -- hehe. Raws lid kuv pom, paub, thiab nrog tau tus tham mas, feem coob, xav xav ANGLICIZE tus Ntawv Hmoob Las Tees xwb, ces pheej hais tias xav kho kom yooj yim rau sawv daws sau thiab siv. Ua cas hos hais lid no, vim cov tswv yim nej coj los kho tus ntawv Hmoob ces, 90% plus ces yog ANGLICIZATION xwb -- haha. Kuv tsuas pom ib thaub sau tus Ntawv Hmoob zoo lid nod: mhoob etc. (kuv qog nws cov ntawv tsis tag) -- ua rau kuv ceeb tag nrho. Nej tus yuav hais lid cas los xij, kuv tus kheej, kuv ntseeg Txiv Plig Nyiaj Pov (Yves Betrais) thiab Andrew Smalley cov lus - vim nkawd yog cov tsim nej tus Ntawv Hmoob Las Tees rau Hmoob thiab lwm haiv neeg siv thoob qab ntuj. Yog nkawd xav xav ANGLICIZE lus Hmoob ces nkawd twb sau lid nej xav xav sau lid niaj hnub nod lawm. Qhov nkawd tsis ua lid ntawd, nej cov mus xav zoo zoo vim yog dab tsid? Nkawd twb hais rau nej ntau zaus lawm. Kuv hnov nkawd coj lus los ntawm ib lub conference nej cov Hmoob mus nrog nkawd tham tawm tswv yim los kho tus ntawv nod. Kuv tsis tas hais nkawd cov lus rov qab rau nej vim nkawd ob tug txawj ntse twb hais lawm. (Smalley yog ib tug Linguist, nws thiaj lid muaj peev xwm los tsim tus Ntwav Hmoob Las Tees rau nej cov Hmoob. Es peb cov Hmoob, los nej ned, pus muaj leej twg yog ib twg xib fwb Linguist mad? Raws lid kuv paub -- muaj ZERO xwb os. Tiam sis khav khav los kho tus Ntawv Hmoob. Qhov nod tsis make sense lid os.) Hmoob ces tsis mloog lus lid os. Hais lid nod xwb. What is being proposed makes no sense whatsoever -- has no rhyme or reason -- except to cater to a white-washed-mentality. That is pretty apparent and evident despite all the denial amidst the ignorance.

Mloog koj hais mas zooli koj yuav tos ib tug neeg nqis saum ntuj los qhia kom koj lhoov thiab kho, koj mam txawj kho. Koj puas paub tias tsis tau muaj ntawv txaus Hmoob cov lus thiab suab ma? Txivplig lawv tsim tau rau Hmoob es Hmoob txawm tsis muaj ib lub tswvyim txhimkho li? Vim tej tswvyim xav li koj hais no, peb Hmoob thiaj tsis muaj kev vammeej. Koj puas tau paub history kev tsim lub tsheb Ford?

Edited by Vajhuamsibluag

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Mloog koj hais mas zooli koj yuav tos ib tug neeg nqis saum ntuj los qhia kom koj lhoov thiab kho, koj mam txawj kho. Koj puas paub tias tsis tau muaj ntawv txaus Hmoob cov lus thiab suab ma? Txivplig lawv tsim tau rau Hmoob es Hmoob txawm tsis muaj ib lub tswvyim txhimkho li? Vim tej tswvyim xav li koj hais no, peb Hmoob thiaj tsis muaj kev vammeej. Koj puas tau paub history kev tsim lub tsheb Ford?

Ha_MUNG niam Ha_MUNG txi piv txoj lug hais tias, "Av tawg pleb es kuv tawm los xwb os." -- hehe. Av tawg pleb tawm los xwb ces tsis paub Ford history lid os -- hehe. Koj lo lus "lhoov", muab xav los, ntshe koj yog aib thaub uas propose sau Ntawv Hmoob lid nod: mhoob ec. etc., pus yog? Ntawm tus neeg nqis saum ntuj los, kuv ntseeg ntawm kuv tus kheej, yog nws paub lus thiab ntawv Hmoob Las Tees nrog rau lus thiab ntawv As Kiv meej meej lawm mas nws yuav tsis tawm lub tswvyim zoo lid nej cov xav xav ANGLICIZE ntawv Hmoob los nawb. Qhov txhimkho tus Ntawv Hmoob Las Tees mas muaj thiab tshuav ntau yam kho tsis txawj tag os nawb, yog nej cov tswvyim txawj look beyond ANGLICIZATION. Qhov nej pheej xav xav ANGLICIZE mas vim nej tsis yog ib twg tib neeg (xib fwb) formally trained and educated Linguist ned, ces xav thiab pom qhov nqaim-nqaim xwb ned. Kuv pab nej me ntsis twvyim yom, vim nej FOCUS rau ANGLICIZATION heev lid lawm, ces ua tsis muaj paus muaj ntsis lid lawm os. Example, koj thuam hais tias, ua cas Hmoob pheej hais tias, "Los peb PAIS." Yog lawm, lo lus PAIS nod mas yog lo lus Nplog xwb. Ces koj ho propose hais tias kom hais, "Los peb GO." vim peb nyob tebchaw USA lawm. Yog lid, koj pus paub koj qhov xav, siv, twvyim, thuam yuam kev ntawd mad? Coj mus xav zoo-zoo nawb. Yog tseem tsis paub no ces kuv teb, pabqhia, koj lidno. Lus AsKiv kiag, muaj lo lus bonjour, senorita, Hmoob, a la carte, bienvenue, sayonara, etc. etc. etc.. Pus nkag siab los tseem khawb-khawb taubhau. Kuv twb qhia ib lub tswvyim los kho tus Ntawv Hmoob Las Tees rau koj lawm ned. Koj pus paub lub twvyim ntawd mad? Los tseem khawb-khawb taubhau? Hais lid no xwb. (Txhob lam tau lam twv tub ruag Ha_MUNG nawb. Txawm av tawg pleb nws tawm los xwb los nws kuj muaj lajlim tswvyim zoolid luagteb luagchaw thiab nawb.)

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Ha_MUNG niam Ha_MUNG txi piv txoj lug hais tias, "Av tawg pleb es kuv tawm los xwb os." -- hehe. Av tawg pleb tawm los xwb ces tsis paub Ford history lid os -- hehe. Koj lo lus "lhoov", muab xav los, ntshe koj yog aib thaub uas propose sau Ntawv Hmoob lid nod: mhoob ec. etc., pus yog? Ntawm tus neeg nqis saum ntuj los, kuv ntseeg ntawm kuv tus kheej, yog nws paub lus thiab ntawv Hmoob Las Tees nrog rau lus thiab ntawv As Kiv meej meej lawm mas nws yuav tsis tawm lub tswvyim zoo lid nej cov xav xav ANGLICIZE ntawv Hmoob los nawb. Qhov txhimkho tus Ntawv Hmoob Las Tees mas muaj thiab tshuav ntau yam kho tsis txawj tag os nawb, yog nej cov tswvyim txawj look beyond ANGLICIZATION. Qhov nej pheej xav xav ANGLICIZE mas vim nej tsis yog ib twg tib neeg (xib fwb) formally trained and educated Linguist ned, ces xav thiab pom qhov nqaim-nqaim xwb ned. Kuv pab nej me ntsis twvyim yom, vim nej FOCUS rau ANGLICIZATION heev lid lawm, ces ua tsis muaj paus muaj ntsis lid lawm os. Example, koj thuam hais tias, ua cas Hmoob pheej hais tias, "Los peb PAIS." Yog lawm, lo lus PAIS nod mas yog lo lus Nplog xwb. Ces koj ho propose hais tias kom hais, "Los peb GO." vim peb nyob tebchaw USA lawm. Yog lid, koj pus paub koj qhov xav, siv, twvyim, thuam yuam kev ntawd mad? Coj mus xav zoo-zoo nawb. Yog tseem tsis paub no ces kuv teb, pabqhia, koj lidno. Lus AsKiv kiag, muaj lo lus bonjour, senorita, Hmoob, a la carte, bienvenue, sayonara, etc. etc. etc.. Pus nkag siab los tseem khawb-khawb taubhau. Kuv twb qhia ib lub tswvyim los kho tus Ntawv Hmoob Las Tees rau koj lawm ned. Koj pus paub lub twvyim ntawd mad? Los tseem khawb-khawb taubhau? Hais lid no xwb. (Txhob lam tau lam twv tub ruag Ha_MUNG nawb. Txawm av tawg pleb nws tawm los xwb los nws kuj muaj lajlim tswvyim zoolid luagteb luagchaw thiab nawb.)

Zoo siab tau nrog koj tham mejis txog kev txhimkho ntawv Hmoob. Tejzaum wb yuav mus tsis txog qhovtwg ces cia tso tseg lino. Peb kev sib tham zooli lub circle. Tsis muaj chaw tawm mus rau qhov tshiab.

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Zoo siab tau nrog koj tham mejis txog kev txhimkho ntawv Hmoob. Tejzaum wb yuav mus tsis txog qhovtwg ces cia tso tseg lino. Peb kev sib tham zooli lub circle. Tsis muaj chaw tawm mus rau qhov tshiab.

Ua siab ntwbntev mas tijlaug yog xav kom Hmoob vammeej os nawb. Ua cas es maj muab tej lus sibtham, sibqhia, sibtxhawb, sibpiv lajlis tswvyim zoo lidnod povtseg nyaib ualuaj lid ntag? Txawm mus circle xwb los yuavtau nrhiav kev tawm xwb hos yog ib tug Hmoob twg npajsiab tiag-tiag los txhimkho tus Ntawv Hmoob LasTees nas. Hos yog cialid xyeebkiag pomntseg - give up - lawm ces peb Hmoob yuav tsismuaj ib txoj ke twg haumxeeb lid os -- in finding a way out of the circle and Merry-Go-Round. Kuv twb xavnstoov haistias tejzaum tham ntxiv mus ces wb yuav nhriav tau ib txojkev tawm ntag no laud. Es koj tseem siv nkaumtes nkaumtaw lawm -- already threw in the towel or raised the white flag. Peb cov Hmoob ces tos uapab uapawg los ntshe zoo lidnod ntag laug. Koj hais tsis ntxim kuv siab. Kuv hais tsis ntxim koj siab ces lawb kiag xwb. Koj ua koj zaj. Kuv ua kuv zaj. Zoo lidnod es pus muaj ib txoj kev twg rau Hmoob taug sibtuav tes ntujntws uake kom mus tau ibkaujruam lawm yav tomntej seb pus ntsib txoj kev npausuav vammeej mad Hmoob? Tsis taslid, koj noog kuv haistias kuv pus paub Henry Ford's tsim tsheb qhov history? Tubruag lid kuv paub thiab tsispaub los, kuv ntseeg haistias thaum Henry Ford tswvyim tag nrho es mus circle lawm xwb, nws kuj tsis tau muaj qhov ntawd povtseg kiag lawm los give up. Nws kuv mus los mus los lub circle ntawd nrhiav tswvyim tsis so kom muaj kev tawm xwb-xwb. Ces thaum pib nws kuj ua tau lub Model-T xwb. Lub tsheb nod tsuas khiav tau dig-dawg-dig-dawg. Tom qab nws nrhiav tau txoj kev tawm lub circle lawm ces nws mam tswvsim tau cov tsheb tshiab khiav ceev zog los rau cov tsheb khiav vi-voog-vig-voog lid peb niajhnub tsav nod. Hais xaus lidno rau nej sawvdaws xwb os nawb -- yog tus kwvtij Hmoob twg npaj lubsiab lubntsws siab dawbpaug los hlub, pab, txhawb Hmoob. Hos yog zoolid cov cuam xwb nodces thov txhob tsim lus taug lus xaiv ntxiv lawm os nawb mog.

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Cov kw vtij phooj ywg sawv daws, thov caw nej mus koom lub project nyob rau hauv facebook ua hu ua1HmongCommunityLanguageProjectes mus create nej own version nyob rau hauv os nawb.... li ntawd, peb hmoob thiaj muaj ntau version los xaiv... Sawv daws twb muaj laj lim tswv yim tias yuav hloov li cas, nyiam li cas lawm ces mus nqis tes kiag es txhob siam ncauj lus thiab sib hawm sib cav ntxiv lawm.

Thaum sawv daws sib koom txua tau lub conversion table thiab lub translation program tiav lawm ces txhais hom ntawv A rau hom B lossis koj hom rau kuv hom yoojyim heev lawm. Nws tsuas siv copy & paste then hit on translate lawm xwb.

Competition is good... Thov caw!

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OK, Bro,

Wb kuj tham ntau lawm thiab yeej ntxaws kawg li lawm. Kuv yeej pom koj post koj/nej cov kev sab laj no ntau xyoo los lawm, thiab kuj muaj coob leej post dua lwm lub tswv yim. Tiam sis kuv yeej qhua nej pab no dua tias nej ua tau zoo dua lwm pab. Tiam sis qhov kuv hais koj no tsis yog kuv rhuav tiam sis kuv tseem lees txais yuav tsis tau tau 3 nqe uas hais ntawd

1. Nej txoj cai Standard yog sau tus H tuaj tom qab tag nrho. Peb xav tias ua kom yooj yim tiam sis tej thaum kuj ua rau txoj cai sau ntawv puas. Kuv xav tias nws yeej tsis confuse dab tsi yog peb qhia kiag meej meej rau cov neeg kawm ntawv tias cov sau tus H ua ntej tsuas muaj 5 tug: hl, hm, hml, hn, hny li no xwb ces kuj tag teeb meem, dua li lwm tus ces sau H tuaj tom qab huv si.

2. Tus TR=R, peb siv tus R mas yooj yim tshaj tus TR lawm ntau. Peb tsuas cais kiag ntxiv tias thaum twg yog peb sau tej suab qog uas muaj tus R tuaj tom qab, thiab thaum peb sau luag lwm haiv neeg lus mas tus R tawm suab dov blaig (R=English)

3. Qhov ib lo lus muab sau sib txuas, mas tsis raug kev cai sau ntawv Hmoob, vim Hmoob mas sau suab xwb, Hos English mas lawv sau lus, lawv li ib txaum ntawv yog ib lo lus. hos peb li ib txaum ntawv yog ib suab lus xwb, mas tej thaum thiaj muaj ntau suab lus ua ke mam tau ib lo lus. Tsis tag li ntawd yog peb muab sau sib txuas mas thaum nyeem los kuj nyuaj tuaj, tej lo lus ntev. Peb txawm yuav siv (-) los mus pab kuj ua rau kev sau ntawv haj yam nyuaj tshaj qub tuaj xwb (txiv laum-huab-xeeb, civ-tov-civ-yam) mas peb tsuas siv tus (-) rau ib txhia lus uas tsawg tshaj plaws xwb (yawg Kais-Xuam-Phoos-Vis-Ham) tsis yog thaum twg los peb pheej xav tas li tias puas siv (-) los tsis siv ne ua rau haj yam nyuaj.

Mas yog tsis xav tham ntau los kuj tsis ua cas tham li no xwb. Kuv tsuas hais ntawm kuv tus kheej muaj 3 qho no kuv tsis pom zoo, tiam sis yog hnub twg hmoob thoob ntuj ho los nrog nej siv tag lawm los kuj haj yam zoo. Hos yog lawv tsis nrog nej siv cov nqe no los ho khaws kuv cov lus mus research ntxiv thiab

Kuv sau kuv ntawv Hmoob tshiab based ibtxhia raws li cov ua tij ntaus tswvyim txhimkho uantej. Ib txhia caglawjtxheej (standard) yog kuv tswvyim. Tus cai "Tsis raug ntawv/lus Hmoob" yog leejtwg ua tus set rau Hmoob?

Hmoob yog ib haiv neeg tos kom luag lwm haiv neeg qhia kom Hmoob lhoov licas mas Hmoob thiaj paub lhoov. Pivtxwv li Hmoob rab phom thiab nheev. Txwvlospuajtiam, Hmoob yeej tsis muaj lub tswvyim txhim kho li.

Edited by Vajhuamsibluag
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VajHuamTsisSibLuag,

Koj uas tus pom-zoo kho/HLOOV tus Ntawv Hmoob RPA uas muab B=NP, J=NTS, NX=NTX, G=NK, BL=NPL, PL=NPLH etc. nad, koj sim saib cov Ntawv Hmoob-Suav nod ntawm zaj-nkauj (cov ntawv) Youtube nod yom, uas ua koj TIB-ZAJ lub tswv8 muab Hmoob cov lus/ntawv raws "phonetics" xwb, and NOT linguistics, seb ho qhia tau koj/nej dab-tsid yom ... hehe, keke, haha, HOHO, HAHA!

Koj/nej yuav kom peb Hmoob nyob USA/SEAsia hais lus kom thoob cov kwv-tij Hmoob-Suav lod? *LOLz* Tau kawg, yog yuav kom peb pib hais lus Hmoob ij-eg ij-eg uj-ag uj-ag ooj-awg ooj-awg lid Hmoob-Suav nas ... hehehe ... smiles!

(And this is just one example of many on Youtube ... hehehe ... and really smiles! LoLz@VajHuamTsisSibLuag)

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VajHuamTsisSibLuag,

Koj uas tus pom-zoo kho/HLOOV tus Ntawv Hmoob RPA uas muab B=NP, J=NTS, NX=NTX, G=NK, BL=NPL, PL=NPLH etc. nad, koj sim saib cov Ntawv Hmoob-Suav nod ntawm zaj-nkauj (cov ntawv) Youtube nod yom, uas ua koj TIB-ZAJ lub tswv8 muab Hmoob cov lus/ntawv raws "phonetics" xwb, and NOT linguistics, seb ho qhia tau koj/nej dab-tsid yom ... hehe, keke, haha, HOHO, HAHA!

Koj/nej yuav kom peb Hmoob nyob USA/SEAsia hais lus kom thoob cov kwv-tij Hmoob-Suav lod? *LOLz* Tau kawg, yog yuav kom peb pib hais lus Hmoob ij-eg ij-eg uj-ag uj-ag ooj-awg ooj-awg lid Hmoob-Suav nas ... hehehe ... smiles!

(And this is just one example of many on Youtube ... hehehe ... and really smiles! LoLz@VajHuamTsisSibLuag)

Tsis khoom nrog koj tham xwb. Txawm tham los yuav pab tsis tau dabtsi rau Hmoob.

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Tsis khoom nrog koj tham xwb. Txawm tham los yuav pab tsis tau dabtsi rau Hmoob.

*luag-kiag plaub-tsib suab ... keke, hehe, haha, HOHO, HAHA!*

"5 K" nrog koj tham ib-qho lid os nawb. Hmoob/Moob los yeej "5 K" tib-yam es koj cov Ntawv Cuam/Cuav thiaj-lid "NEVER was ever idiotically put to use, or mildly adopted" ... hehehe ... and really smiles! LOLz@VajHuamTsisSibLuag

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Yog lawm Vajhuam. From what I understand, we're not trying to anglicize Latin Hmong, but simplify to make it easier to learn and write. I don't like using the hyphen though cause it's easier to leave a space than typing in the hyphen for compounded words as the old way.

We have to make sure we can differentiate the single words and compound words. Using the hyphen means it is a compound word. it can be a noun, compound noun, adjective or compound adjective, etc. For instance JA IAB. It should be written as JAIAB because it should be considered as a compound word. Without the hyphen, it can be read as JAI AB. KAB TSIB is a compound noun. It should be written as KABTSIB because the last character of ka(B) is not a vowel and the first character of (T)sib is not a vowel: ka(B)(T)sib. With B & T together, it does not have a sound, or can not be read as a word in Hmong. No hyphen is used. LIABPLOOG should be considered as a compound adjective. Since B & P are consonant, no hyphen should be used.

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ntawv Hmoob

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Teeb meem loj, hais ntau, tsis paub hnub twg thiaj ua tau zoo. Qhov tseeb tiag, mus kawm Languagistic kom tag, mam sawv los kho ntawv Hmoob no tej zaum neeg qog coob dua. Nyob nyob xav xav, muab tus ub los hloov tus no.... yog tsis muaj nyiaj twb, nyiaj kuj, nyiaj plhom xav xov, tshaj tau moo li cas rau Hmoob tas tus paub. Yog leej twg ntse ntsuav, siv kom yog yog li niag niam ntawv Hmoob no yug los, nws mam sau nws cov tswv yim, nws zab dab neeg, nws zaj lus xwb, thaum kawg, nws tseem yog niag ntse dua. Leej twg heev tuaj xyuas hmongglobe.com, tuaj nyeem Hmong Globe cov ntawv xov xwm. Nyeem yooj yim, nyeem yog yog, nyeem tsis qaig kiag. Tus tsis ntse los nyeem tau, tus ntse haj yam nyeem ceev.....

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Teeb meem loj, hais ntau, tsis paub hnub twg thiaj ua tau zoo. Qhov tseeb tiag, mus kawm Languagistic kom tag, mam sawv los kho ntawv Hmoob no tej zaum neeg qog coob dua. Nyob nyob xav xav, muab tus ub los hloov tus no.... yog tsis muaj nyiaj twb, nyiaj kuj, nyiaj plhom xav xov, tshaj tau moo li cas rau Hmoob tas tus paub. Yog leej twg ntse ntsuav, siv kom yog yog li niag niam ntawv Hmoob no yug los, nws mam sau nws cov tswv yim, nws zab dab neeg, nws zaj lus xwb, thaum kawg, nws tseem yog niag ntse dua. Leej twg heev tuaj xyuas hmongglobe.com, tuaj nyeem Hmong Globe cov ntawv xov xwm. Nyeem yooj yim, nyeem yog yog, nyeem tsis qaig kiag. Tus tsis ntse los nyeem tau, tus ntse haj yam nyeem ceev.....

Kuv tsis tau pom dua hmonggblobe.com thiab, tabsis kuv mam saib thiab. Kuv saib tag mas muaj comment dabtsi los kuv mam hais tuaj pab. Kuv pom Tzexa cov ntawv nws proposed kom kho mas ntau dhau lawm. Yuav yog lwm tiam (rau kuve) mas thiaj yuav lhoov tau.

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Vajhuamsibluag thiab cwjmemdub, Kuv nyeem koj cov lus qhia txog lub tswv yim los sis cov neeg xws lid Committee Hmoob thiab Muas Liab kom nej sawv daws los sau tus Ntawv Hmoob Las Tees lid lawd pom zoo ces qhia tau hais tias nej tsis xav los pom ntawm nej tus kheej hais tias qhov twg yog qhov tseeb qhov cuam, cia lid ua lid lwm tus ua thiab hais xwb. Koj ho hais tias nej cov sau Ntawv Hmoob Las Tees lid nej sau tsis yog los ANGLICIZE ntawv Hmoob, es tus ntawv B, J, and BL yog suab dab tsid mad? Txhob dag nej tus kheej os nawb. Zoo lid no es kuv thiaj kom nej sawv daws rov mus kawm tus ntawv Hmoob Las Tees thiab tus ntawv As Kiv kom meej zog tso mam rov qab los tawm lub tswv yim tshiab nod ned yog pheej yuav npav los kho tus ntawv nod nas. Hos qhov koj piav txog tus HYPHEN, coj los ua compound words in English, nws kuj tsis yog npaum lid koj hais os nawb. Piv txwv, kuv twb sau tus hyphen nod ned - es cov ntawv nod pus yog compound words mad? Tus HYPHEN mas tsuas muab coj los siv rau cov lus As Kiv, compound words, tsis formal English nyob hauv Ntawv As Kiv xwb os nawb lid koj lo lus "go-down-the-drain". Zoo lid nod es kuv thiab pheej hais tias nej yuav tau mus kawm tus ntawv US-English kom meej zog no ned -- hehe. Raws lid kuv pom, paub, thiab nrog tau tus tham mas, feem coob, xav xav ANGLICIZE tus Ntawv Hmoob Las Tees xwb, ces pheej hais tias xav kho kom yooj yim rau sawv daws sau thiab siv. Ua cas hos hais lid no, vim cov tswv yim nej coj los kho tus ntawv Hmoob ces, 90% plus ces yog ANGLICIZATION xwb -- haha. Kuv tsuas pom ib thaub sau tus Ntawv Hmoob zoo lid nod: mhoob etc. (kuv qog nws cov ntawv tsis tag) -- ua rau kuv ceeb tag nrho. Nej tus yuav hais lid cas los xij, kuv tus kheej, kuv ntseeg Txiv Plig Nyiaj Pov (Yves Betrais) thiab Andrew Smalley cov lus - vim nkawd yog cov tsim nej tus Ntawv Hmoob Las Tees rau Hmoob thiab lwm haiv neeg siv thoob qab ntuj. Yog nkawd xav xav ANGLICIZE lus Hmoob ces nkawd twb sau lid nej xav xav sau lid niaj hnub nod lawm. Qhov nkawd tsis ua lid ntawd, nej cov mus xav zoo zoo vim yog dab tsid? Nkawd twb hais rau nej ntau zaus lawm. Kuv hnov nkawd coj lus los ntawm ib lub conference nej cov Hmoob mus nrog nkawd tham tawm tswv yim los kho tus ntawv nod. Kuv tsis tas hais nkawd cov lus rov qab rau nej vim nkawd ob tug txawj ntse twb hais lawm. (Smalley yog ib tug Linguist, nws thiaj lid muaj peev xwm los tsim tus Ntwav Hmoob Las Tees rau nej cov Hmoob. Es peb cov Hmoob, los nej ned, pus muaj leej twg yog ib twg xib fwb Linguist mad? Raws lid kuv paub -- muaj ZERO xwb os. Tiam sis khav khav los kho tus Ntawv Hmoob. Qhov nod tsis make sense lid os.) Hmoob ces tsis mloog lus lid os. Hais lid nod xwb. What is being proposed makes no sense whatsoever -- has no rhyme or reason -- except to cater to a white-washed-mentality. That is pretty apparent and evident despite all the denial amidst the ignorance.

 

 

Mloog koj hais mas zooli koj yuav tos ib tug neeg nqis saum ntuj los qhia kom koj lhoov thiab kho, koj mam txawj kho. Koj puas paub tias tsis tau muaj ntawv txaus Hmoob cov lus thiab suab ma? Txivplig lawv tsim tau rau Hmoob es Hmoob txawm tsis muaj ib lub tswvyim txhimkho li? Vim tej tswvyim xav li koj hais no, peb Hmoob thiaj tsis muaj kev vammeej. Koj puas tau paub history kev tsim lub tsheb Ford?

leej twg hais tias muas liab  kom kho ntawv hmoob "lastees no  nyob qhov twg ? muas liab lawv tsis nrog nej paub cov ntawv las tees no laiv < nov yog ntawv  coj kev cai  xwb naj  >

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Nyob zoo ib zejtsoom cov npoj hmov tshua,

 

Mloog s/d tham, tog twg los puav leej yog lus. Leej twg tsis tau sau story mas nws yuav tsis pom cov ntawv no muaj teeb meem. Kuv tus kheej yeej pom tej yam uas tsim nyog yuav tau ntxhab ntxiv. Vim peb cov ntawv nws siv tsis tau cov niam ntawv sib txis los ua suab lus. Vim peb cov suab lus tseem tsawg, peb yuav qog tsis tau suab nas suab noog, suab tsov, suab ntxhw, suab phis nyoos vaim quaj. Cov suab tsiaj no nws tseem ceeb rau thaum peb tham txog ib yam dab tsi xws li hnov suab dab suab tsov quaj, hnov lus mab lus suav hais. Peb sau qog tsis tau. Thaum peb ho sau txog kev tsiv teb tsaws chaw txog lub zos ub lub zos no, peb sau lawv cov zos tsis meej. Peb yuav qiv lo lus Askiv los hais los yuav muaj kev cuam tshuam rau tus nyeem uas tsis paub lus Askiv.

 

Vim zoo li no thiaj muaj tus puav xav tias yuav tau ntxiv lub puav suab rau los sis ntxiv tus puav niam tsiaj ntawv rau. Qhov ntawd nws tsis txhais tias yuav rhuav tshem tab sis yog tsav kom zoo ntxiv.

 

Hos hais txog qhov muab cov ntawv hmoob no hloov mus raws cov ntawv Askiv, siv tus B los sawv chaw tus NP, siv tus lej 4 los hloov tus ntawv "Plaub" cov no tsuas yog tus nkees sau ntau es lam siv xwb. Np thiab B nws twb tsis tshaj ntau npaum cas, yuav kom tsis yuam kev ces peb siv Np li qub.

 

Ntawm tus tsiaj ntawv uas siv txog peb plaub tug los sib txis, yog muaj txoj kev twg hloov tau mas nws yuav yog ib qhov zoo rau sawv daws.

 

Hos ntawm peb yuav siv cov cim li Fabkis cov thiab Nyab laj cov mas tej zaum yuav ua rau s/d rem-r-uam.

 

Kawg no, kev tawm suab, txhua leej txhua tus muaj cai tawm suab, tab sis kev tawm suab thov txhob hais chob lwm leej lwm tus li yus loj dua, txawj dua, los sis tsim txiaj dua. Yog peb coj lub xeeb ceem li no, sawv daws yuav nyob koom zej koom zos tsis tau, sawv daws yuav sib pub tshoob kos tsis tau, sawv daws yuav koom t-uag tsis tau ib lub tsev, sawv daws yuav koom tsis tau ib tug txiv yuav, sawv daws yuav koom tsis tau ib lub tsev nyob thiab sawv daws yuav koom tsis tau ib lub teb chaws txoos.

 

Kev tawm suab yog tawm tso tshav plhuav feem coob pom li cas yuav li ntawd mas thiaj li zoo. Feem coob pom ib yam, yus ua yus ib yam, nws yeej zoo thiab tab sis nws yuav muaj feem puas ntau dua li qhov zoo.

 

Tham ntau tsam tab kaum nej, ces thov xaus li nov. Muaj caim mam rov tuaj tawm suab txog lwm yam. Ua tsaug.

 

Nr. L,

 

Koj hais yog lus kawg. Qhov yuav muab lwmyam ntawv los ntxiv, raws kuv xav, yog yuav kho cov lus xwsli lo CAB. CAB nyuj, CAB twm, CAB nyob hauv plab, CAB hlua, etc. Yuav tau muaj chaw cim kom sau lotwg lontawd. Pivtxwv ntxiv: Lo lus LUAG: LUAG (laugh), LUAG (others, they), LUAG yam-ub yam-no hauv av xwsli LUAG hlua, LUAG ib tug tsiaj qus yus tua tau. Tej no yog lub tswvyim yuav txhim kho saib puas make sense rau sawvdaws. Raws li Muas Liab, Dr. Vaj Lwm, Jonas Vangay thiab coob tus uas tau form ib pab committee los kho cov ntawv, tejzaum late 80's or early 90's. Lawv sugg[quote]

ested tus NG (ntawv tshiab) ua lub suab li lus Blog tus NYUJ, g hloov tus nk, nk=g, np=b, ntx=nx, pr (tshiab), nts=j. Ntawm kuv mas tseem tshuav 2 or 3 tug ntxiv. Qhov kho cov ntawv Hmoob no, Xeevntxawg yog ib tug muaj tswvyim dav dua cov thiab.

Nyob zoo os phooj ywg, koj cov lus mas kuj yeej zoo lawm tiam sis lo lus hais tias (luag) no mas kuj muaj ntau yam lus ua yus yuav siv, nyob li luag lwm haiv neeg los yeej muaj tej lus zoo ib yam kuj txhais tau ntau yam thiab, kuv xav mas nyob rau lub sij hawm ua yus yuav siv ntawd saib yog yus zoo siab es muaj kev xav luag, los puas sis yog yus muaj tej yam khoom nyhav, loj tsis zoo kwv ces yuav tau muab luag mus xwb thiaj tau mas sawv daws yuav tau txhob muab cov ntawv hmoob no coj los kho vim luag lwm haiv neeg los yeej muaj lo puav lus hais lub caij nyoog ua lus America ces twb hais tias xiv kev ntsaum tab sis lawv twb sau (Schedule) Yog li ntawm lub suab yuav qog xws li suab tsiaj, suab lwm yam ntawd los luag lwm haiv neeg yeej tsis muaj tib yam tsuas yog lub suab tawm hauv tus tsiaj ntawd tuaj es yus tsuas yog qog nws kom nws txhob paub es yus thiaj tau tua xwb thov txhob muab los cuam tshuam rau hmoob tej ntawv rau kuv mas xav tau tias yog peb leej twg xav txawj ntse ces kav tsij lus kawm kom tau ib yam txuj ci los siv es mam muab tis lub npe kom ruaj kho xwb, xws li kuv txua tau ib hom txuj ci tshiab los zaws cov ntshav qab zib thiab mob Stroke uas zoo tau txawv li luag lwm haiv neeg tes txuj ci, es kuv twb muab hu ua hmong massage no ne lub npe no ces yog peb hmoob lub npe lawm los lwm haiv neeg kuj tuaj zaws mob coob thiab lawv asked kuv tias yam massage no zaws tau zoo heev yog hu li cas no ces kuj yeej qhia tias yog hmong massage no los luag yeej nrog zoo siab thiab qhuas tias tsis tau hnov dua los thiab no xwb ne, mas nej yeej meem mus xyaum tev kev txawj thiab paub ntawd los ces tis npe rau xwb thov txhob muab hmoob cov lus pauv li sawv daws xav nawb mog tsoom kwv tij.

Vajhuamsibluag thiab cwjmemdub, Kuv nyeem koj cov lus qhia txog lub tswv yim los sis cov neeg xws lid Committee Hmoob thiab Muas Liab kom nej sawv daws los sau tus Ntawv Hmoob Las Tees lid lawd pom zoo ces qhia tau hais tias nej tsis xav los pom ntawm nej tus kheej hais tias qhov twg yog qhov tseeb qhov cuam, cia lid ua lid lwm tus ua thiab hais xwb. Koj ho hais tias nej cov sau Ntawv Hmoob Las Tees lid nej sau tsis yog los ANGLICIZE ntawv Hmoob, es tus ntawv B, J, and BL yog suab dab tsid mad? Txhob dag nej tus kheej os nawb. Zoo lid no es kuv thiaj kom nej sawv daws rov mus kawm tus ntawv Hmoob Las Tees thiab tus ntawv As Kiv kom meej zog tso mam rov qab los tawm lub tswv yim tshiab nod ned yog pheej yuav npav los kho tus ntawv nod nas. Hos qhov koj piav txog tus HYPHEN, coj los ua compound words in English, nws kuj tsis yog npaum lid koj hais os nawb. Piv txwv, kuv twb sau tus hyphen nod ned - es cov ntawv nod pus yog compound words mad? Tus HYPHEN mas tsuas muab coj los siv rau cov lus As Kiv, compound words, tsis formal English nyob hauv Ntawv As Kiv xwb os nawb lid koj lo lus "go-down-the-drain". Zoo lid nod es kuv thiab pheej hais tias nej yuav tau mus kawm tus ntawv US-English kom meej zog no ned -- hehe. Raws lid kuv pom, paub, thiab nrog tau tus tham mas, feem coob, xav xav ANGLICIZE tus Ntawv Hmoob Las Tees xwb, ces pheej hais tias xav kho kom yooj yim rau sawv daws sau thiab siv. Ua cas hos hais lid no, vim cov tswv yim nej coj los kho tus ntawv Hmoob ces, 90% plus ces yog ANGLICIZATION xwb -- haha. Kuv tsuas pom ib thaub sau tus Ntawv Hmoob zoo lid nod: mhoob etc. (kuv qog nws cov ntawv tsis tag) -- ua rau kuv ceeb tag nrho. Nej tus yuav hais lid cas los xij, kuv tus kheej, kuv ntseeg Txiv Plig Nyiaj Pov (Yves Betrais) thiab Andrew Smalley cov lus - vim nkawd yog cov tsim nej tus Ntawv Hmoob Las Tees rau Hmoob thiab lwm haiv neeg siv thoob qab ntuj. Yog nkawd xav xav ANGLICIZE lus Hmoob ces nkawd twb sau lid nej xav xav sau lid niaj hnub nod lawm. Qhov nkawd tsis ua lid ntawd, nej cov mus xav zoo zoo vim yog dab tsid? Nkawd twb hais rau nej ntau zaus lawm. Kuv hnov nkawd coj lus los ntawm ib lub conference nej cov Hmoob mus nrog nkawd tham tawm tswv yim los kho tus ntawv nod. Kuv tsis tas hais nkawd cov lus rov qab rau nej vim nkawd ob tug txawj ntse twb hais lawm. (Smalley yog ib tug Linguist, nws thiaj lid muaj peev xwm los tsim tus Ntwav Hmoob Las Tees rau nej cov Hmoob. Es peb cov Hmoob, los nej ned, pus muaj leej twg yog ib twg xib fwb Linguist mad? Raws lid kuv paub -- muaj ZERO xwb os. Tiam sis khav khav los kho tus Ntawv Hmoob. Qhov nod tsis make sense lid os.) Hmoob ces tsis mloog lus lid os. Hais lid nod xwb. What is being proposed makes no sense whatsoever -- has no rhyme or reason -- except to cater to a white-washed-mentality. That is pretty apparent and evident despite all the denial amidst the ignorance.

 

 

Mloog koj hais mas zooli koj yuav tos ib tug neeg nqis saum ntuj los qhia kom koj lhoov thiab kho, koj mam txawj kho. Koj puas paub tias tsis tau muaj ntawv txaus Hmoob cov lus thiab suab ma? Txivplig lawv tsim tau rau Hmoob es Hmoob txawm tsis muaj ib lub tswvyim txhimkho li? Vim tej tswvyim xav li koj hais no, peb Hmoob thiaj tsis muaj kev vammeej. Koj puas tau paub history kev tsim lub tsheb Ford?

leej twg hais tias muas liab  kom kho ntawv hmoob "lastees no  nyob qhov twg ? muas liab lawv tsis nrog nej paub cov ntawv las tees no laiv < nov yog ntawv  coj kev cai  xwb naj  >

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Vajhuamsibluag thiab cwjmemdub, Kuv nyeem koj cov lus qhia txog lub tswv yim los sis cov neeg xws lid Committee Hmoob thiab Muas Liab kom nej sawv daws los sau tus Ntawv Hmoob Las Tees lid lawd pom zoo ces qhia tau hais tias nej tsis xav los pom ntawm nej tus kheej hais tias qhov twg yog qhov tseeb qhov cuam, cia lid ua lid lwm tus ua thiab hais xwb. Koj ho hais tias nej cov sau Ntawv Hmoob Las Tees lid nej sau tsis yog los ANGLICIZE ntawv Hmoob, es tus ntawv B, J, and BL yog suab dab tsid mad? Txhob dag nej tus kheej os nawb. Zoo lid no es kuv thiaj kom nej sawv daws rov mus kawm tus ntawv Hmoob Las Tees thiab tus ntawv As Kiv kom meej zog tso mam rov qab los tawm lub tswv yim tshiab nod ned yog pheej yuav npav los kho tus ntawv nod nas. Hos qhov koj piav txog tus HYPHEN, coj los ua compound words in English, nws kuj tsis yog npaum lid koj hais os nawb. Piv txwv, kuv twb sau tus hyphen nod ned - es cov ntawv nod pus yog compound words mad? Tus HYPHEN mas tsuas muab coj los siv rau cov lus As Kiv, compound words, tsis formal English nyob hauv Ntawv As Kiv xwb os nawb lid koj lo lus "go-down-the-drain". Zoo lid nod es kuv thiab pheej hais tias nej yuav tau mus kawm tus ntawv US-English kom meej zog no ned -- hehe. Raws lid kuv pom, paub, thiab nrog tau tus tham mas, feem coob, xav xav ANGLICIZE tus Ntawv Hmoob Las Tees xwb, ces pheej hais tias xav kho kom yooj yim rau sawv daws sau thiab siv. Ua cas hos hais lid no, vim cov tswv yim nej coj los kho tus ntawv Hmoob ces, 90% plus ces yog ANGLICIZATION xwb -- haha. Kuv tsuas pom ib thaub sau tus Ntawv Hmoob zoo lid nod: mhoob etc. (kuv qog nws cov ntawv tsis tag) -- ua rau kuv ceeb tag nrho. Nej tus yuav hais lid cas los xij, kuv tus kheej, kuv ntseeg Txiv Plig Nyiaj Pov (Yves Betrais) thiab Andrew Smalley cov lus - vim nkawd yog cov tsim nej tus Ntawv Hmoob Las Tees rau Hmoob thiab lwm haiv neeg siv thoob qab ntuj. Yog nkawd xav xav ANGLICIZE lus Hmoob ces nkawd twb sau lid nej xav xav sau lid niaj hnub nod lawm. Qhov nkawd tsis ua lid ntawd, nej cov mus xav zoo zoo vim yog dab tsid? Nkawd twb hais rau nej ntau zaus lawm. Kuv hnov nkawd coj lus los ntawm ib lub conference nej cov Hmoob mus nrog nkawd tham tawm tswv yim los kho tus ntawv nod. Kuv tsis tas hais nkawd cov lus rov qab rau nej vim nkawd ob tug txawj ntse twb hais lawm. (Smalley yog ib tug Linguist, nws thiaj lid muaj peev xwm los tsim tus Ntwav Hmoob Las Tees rau nej cov Hmoob. Es peb cov Hmoob, los nej ned, pus muaj leej twg yog ib twg xib fwb Linguist mad? Raws lid kuv paub -- muaj ZERO xwb os. Tiam sis khav khav los kho tus Ntawv Hmoob. Qhov nod tsis make sense lid os.) Hmoob ces tsis mloog lus lid os. Hais lid nod xwb. What is being proposed makes no sense whatsoever -- has no rhyme or reason -- except to cater to a white-washed-mentality. That is pretty apparent and evident despite all the denial amidst the ignorance.

 

 

Mloog koj hais mas zooli koj yuav tos ib tug neeg nqis saum ntuj los qhia kom koj lhoov thiab kho, koj mam txawj kho. Koj puas paub tias tsis tau muaj ntawv txaus Hmoob cov lus thiab suab ma? Txivplig lawv tsim tau rau Hmoob es Hmoob txawm tsis muaj ib lub tswvyim txhimkho li? Vim tej tswvyim xav li koj hais no, peb Hmoob thiaj tsis muaj kev vammeej. Koj puas tau paub history kev tsim lub tsheb Ford?

leej twg hais tias muas liab  kom kho ntawv hmoob "lastees no  nyob qhov twg ? muas liab lawv tsis nrog nej paub cov ntawv las tees no laiv < nov yog ntawv  coj kev cai  xwb naj  >

HMONG LANGUAGE RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE

 

The history of the various Hmong scripts is intertwined with the political, religious, and
educational developments that have shaped the Laotian Hmong experience over the last forty
years.
' Throughout a recent history dominated by colonialism, war, and the flight of thousands
of Hmong refugees out of Laos, there has also been time for the birth and development
of
Hmong writing systems. Although this paper is not meant to be an exhaustive histor
y of these
Writing systems, it is helpful to reflect on the sequence of events and on the important part the
major writing systems play in the Hmong world today.

William Smalley catalogued fourteen different systems for writing Hmong (Smalley
1988:4). This is impressive, particularly given the fact that until recently the Hmong language
was not used to educate Hmong children in Laos, Thailand, or the United States. Currently, the
three most widely used scripts used for writing Hmong are the Lao script, the Romanized
Popular Alphabet (RPA or Latin script), and the Pahawh script
(Phaj Hauji.

Each script has advantages and disadvantages. Using the Lao script allows Hmong to
transfer writing skills from Lao to Hmong (or vice versa) easily, an important factor for Hmong
in Laos. The Romanized Popular Alphabet (created by French and American missionaries in
collaboration with Hmong), by the same token, has the advantage of transferability from English
(and other Western languages) to Hmong. In addition, writers can use standard typewriters an
d
printing equipment. Finally, the Pahawh script is the only one of the three scripts that did not
involve non-Hrnong in its creation. This script was refined by Shong Lue Yang and was spread
by Shong Lue and others beginning in the
1960's. Although students must learn a script that is
dif
ferent from that used for both Lao and English, many people believe that it is more efficient
and more accurate for writing Hmong than the other two scripts.

Unlike twenty (or even ten) years ago, educational, religious, legal, medical, historical,
and cultural materials written in the Hmong language are available in many countries. Further,
materials are available in hoth Green Hmong and White Hmong, as well as in these three scripts
.
The thousands of Hmong and others who now write in Hmong (in any of the scripts) have
adjusted and tailored written Hmong to suit their own use and their own sense of what is logica
l
and appropriate. As a result, the explosion of interest in Hmong literacy has resulted in daily
use that differs according to country of residence, region, religion, political affiliation, and
personal style. Although there are many positive aspects of this creativity and diversification,
many Hmong around the United States and elsewhere in the world have been concerned for the
past twenty years about the lack of standardization of written Hmong. Since in the future w
e
will see more and more use for written Hmong, it is time to discuss and disseminate information
on the problems inherent in writing Hmong.

During the 1991-92 Hmong National New Year celebration in Fresno, California, Hmong
Council (a national organization whose Board of Directors is made up of representatives of each
of the Hmong clans) organized a conference and invited Dr. William Smalley to discuss the
Romanized Popular Alphabet. One of the outcomes of the conference was to select a group
to
continue the discussion of problems inherent in the RP A and to report back to the Hmong
community at large during the 1992-93 Hmong New Year celebration in Fresno. As it was
eventually formed, the Hmong Language Research and Development Committee included the 

Ntawv.Hmoob.Page.2.rtf

 

Those elected by the conference, as well as several others that they invited to join their meetings.
. The Committee members include native speakers of both White Hmong and Green Hmong, as
we
ll as one non-native speaker.

The members elected by conference participants are:

                 Moua Lia                                 Hmong and Lao Community Coordinator, Merced City School District (Merced, California)

 

Jonas Vangay, Hmong Language Instructor, Merced Citi College (Merced,California)

Tou Herr, Graduate Student, Stanford University, (Palo Alto)

James Moua, Former Hmong Language Instructor, California State University, Stanilaus (Merced, California)

Kao Xiong, Medical, Lingual, and Profession Translation Coordinator, Hmong Association of Eau Claire (Eau Claire, Wisconsin)

Additional members are:

Maxwell Leyang, Hmong Language Instructor and Liaison, Merced Union High School (Merced, California)

Khoua Her, EOP&S Support SpecialistMerced College (MercedCalifornia)

Lue Yang, Hmong Language Instructor, California State University, Sacramento; County Office of EducatioContinuing
Education (Sacramento
California)

Pao Yang, Optimum Hmong Translation (Sacramento, California)

Chue Chang, Hmong Language Instructor and Hmong Curriculum Writer, San Diego Unified School District (San Diego, 
California)

Elizabeth Kirton, Hmong Language Instructor, Fresno City College (Fresno, California)

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eventual common usage. It has already benefitted the members of the Committee to share
_ information on materials, terminology, teaching methods, and language programs in their
respective areas. We hope that we can share the information we collect through this discussio
n
with others around the country.

NOTE ON THE CHOICE OF SCRIPTS AS THE FOCUS OF THIS COMMITTEE

( The mandate of Hmong Council for their sponsorship of this Committee was to discuss
and research the RP A system. All of the members of the Committee recognize that the RP A
is
only one of many writing systems, as explained above. However, since the RP A system is
widely used in published works and is known widely in this and other countries, it is an
appropriate starting point for discussion. Although none of us knows the Pahawh script
, there
are many experts who have devoted years to the study and refinement of that system. We hope
in the future that there will be opportunities to share with each other and with the Hmong
community at large
.

The following pages outline the issues discussed by the Committee. It should be noted
that we arrived at these recommendations after hours of discussion, that we do not always agree
on solutions, and that in some cases we felt we needed to turn to trained linguists for further
sugg[quote]estions. Since the discussion on Hmong writing systems will undoubtedly cont
inue for many
years, we hope that others will join us in looking for the answers to our questions. 

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